Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Separation of Church and State: Opinion

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Separation of Church and State: Opinion

    So, a friend of mine and I are having an argument about this issue. I believe he's overreacting, he insists that he's not. Here's the skinny.

    Where he goes to school, the graduate student organization coordinator sent out an email to the grad students, apparently about some tragedy that had befallen one of the people in the group. Here is the portion of the email relevant to this discussion:

    "Lets all pray for Joanie during this tough time that she is going through. Hope GOD gives her the strength to endure all the suffering."

    His position is that, since the email came from someone that is seen as a university official, the word God shouldn't appear in it whatsoever. In further discussion, he says that no university official should ever mention God (or whatever other deity) in any way when they're acting as a university official. This includes going so far as to make sure that religious jewelry is not worn in the open.

    My position is, frankly, that's he's an alarmist that's overreacting bigtime. Granted, I think that GOD in the email could have been de-accented away from all caps, but I personally am not offended. If I had received the email, I would not have felt as if I was being forced by the university to follow a specific religion. I see and hear university officials every day wear religious jewelry and mention God, all without ever having a problem or feeling like they were pushing some religious agenda.

    Personally, I think it's rather funny that my Catholic friend is all in a tizzy over this, while I (the non-religious one) am not. What are your thoughts? Is he overreacting, or do I just have a lax interpretation of separation of church and state?
    [squadl]
    "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

  • #2
    Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

    IMO, he's WAY overreacting, unless he can show that there is an official university policy regarding its treatment of Joanie during this tough time.

    It's a horrible fight to pick, too. Your friend should be thinking about Joanie.

    It begs the question: what would Jesus do?:icon19:

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

      Yeah this is a touchy topic and always ends in a flame fest. Im a religious person and i dont like the seperation of church and state. But i also know that i shouldnt push my beleifs and thinkings on those who dont want it or refuse to hear it, i have said what i should its up to them to take it how they want. I think in times like that people are more understanding and just over look and think nothing about it. Its a comforting thing to most really.
      that sounds like a good idea trooper.
      -Vulcan

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

        Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR] View Post
        Yeah this is a touchy topic and always ends in a flame fest.
        I'm hoping it doesn't go that way for once, as I'm asking about an opinion about the argument between myself and my friend, rather than opinions about the church and state topic itself. I'm not asking, "What do you think about separation?" but rather, "Is it my friend or myself that is interpreting the rule incorrectly?"

        I don't really care what people think of the rule itself, because it doesn't matter (and I don't care, either). What matters is who gets the "I'm right!" flag to wave. :P
        [squadl]
        "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

          Another IMO: you might want to avoid the argument if it comes up again and instead focus your discussion and attention on Joanie. There's no rule that says you can't punt and instead spend that energy on thinking of something that helps Joanie, right?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

            I'm a devout atheist and I see nothing wrong with an email like that. It's a personal comment on a personal issue. Only an idiot could confuse that with the university taking a stance on religion.
            Become a supporting member!
            Buy a Tactical Duck!
            Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
            TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

              Yeah, I don't think there's any rule that covers personal sentiments, even in an official capacity. Now, if the e-mail had said, "There will be a grief/love sacrifice at the drum circle tonight in order to appease the Surfing Gods - attendance with blood donation is mandatory for graduation." - then I think you'd have a problem.

              In any case, if it's not a public university then it's purely an internal policy matter and has nothing to do with Church and State.
              In game handle: Steel Scion
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                That would require me to know or care about Joanie, which I don't. Joanie isn't the issue; my friend's wacky idea of the rule vs. the actual rule is the issue. :)

                edit: this is directed toward leejo
                Last edited by SmokingTarpan; 08-31-2006, 02:23 PM. Reason: clarification rocks!
                [squadl]
                "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                  Ah! Well then game on! :D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                    First and foremost, the friend is overreacting. However, I have some questions about the situation.

                    Is it a private school or a public school?

                    If it is a public school (state-run), and the graduate student organization coordinator is a paid employee of that school, then this email is inappropriate (though probably not worth freaking out about). If you disagree, look at it this way. Would it be inappropriate to send this email:

                    "Please do not pray for Joanie during this tough time that she is going through because neither I nor Joanie believes in GOD."

                    It's equally inappropriate. Why? Because just as it is disrepectful to tell a religious not to pray, it's equally disrespectful to tell a non-religious person to pray. While much of this is up to personal discretion, at the federal and state level - where church and state are supposedly separated - there is no need for discretion because statements such as this should not be made.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                      Apropos of nothing, this reminds me of a passage from Catch-22:

                      (Yossarian) "I thought you didn't believe in God."

                      "I don't," she sobbed, bursting violently into tears. "But the God I don't believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He's not the mean and stupid God you make Him out to be." Yossarian laughed and turned her arms loose. "Let's have a little more religious freedom between us," he proposed obligingly. "You don't believe in the God you want to, and I won't believe in the God I want to. Is that a deal?"
                      The entire book is online at a Russian site: http://www.fictionbook.ru/author/hel..._catch_22.html

                      Best Book Ever.

                      So an athiest and a catholic and leejo were in a bar debating separation of Church and State and leejo suggested that they all go watch a movie about gladiators...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                        Hmm... thought I mentioned it earlier, but I guess not. Yes, it is a public, state-run university.

                        The reason why I don't believes it violates separation is that it comes off more as a personal statement instead of "You are required by the university to pray to the Catholic God to help Joanie through her troubles."

                        I've never interpreted separation as complete and utter, as in no mention of religion ever; merely as not allowing state-funded institutions to force people to practice one way or another. That's part of why I came here to you guys, I want to see who's interpreting things incorrectly. Remember, by my friend's argument, university officials aren't allowed to have personal religious symbols visibile while on the job, either.
                        [squadl]
                        "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                          Originally posted by leejo View Post
                          and leejo suggested that they all go watch a movie about gladiators...
                          and there was much rejoicing
                          ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
                          No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

                          <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                            Personal sentiments from an university employee on his on time supporting GOD: okay.

                            Personal sentiments from an university employee on university time supporting GOD: okay.

                            Speaking on behalf of the university as if the university is GOD's university AND coming from an employee of the university: not okay.


                            In other words, if the university provost, speaking at graduation, wants to say, "May GOD bless this whole class with happiness and joyousness!! Hallelujah!!", that would be just fine with me. If he wants to say "Our university, inshallah, bestows upon these promising young students our highest accolades," that is not cool.

                            In one instance, he is speaking for himself. In the other instance, he is speaking for the university. In the former, he may say whatever his heart desires. In the latter, he may not.

                            As an atheist, I will roll my eyes equally to both type of comments. But only one is innappropriate.
                            A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                            "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Separation of Church and State: Opinion

                              Originally posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
                              I've never interpreted separation as complete and utter, as in no mention of religion ever; merely as not allowing state-funded institutions to force people to practice one way or another. That's part of why I came here to you guys, I want to see who's interpreting things incorrectly. Remember, by my friend's argument, university officials aren't allowed to have personal religious symbols visibile while on the job, either.
                              I don't believe that separation of church and state was ever supposed to enforce a "no mention of religion" policy. It was created to stop the government from forcing a state religion upon us.

                              A lot of the whole separation of church and state issues these days seem to be people just going out of their way to either a) be offended or b) find something else to gripe about.
                              Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X