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  • Car industry just went to hell

    Apperently Ford and GM are talking about a possible merger or "alliance...


    http://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/ElFin...cid&sortby=ASC


    im sorry but that doesnt sound like its gonna fix either of their problems right now. Ford has enough on its plate and GM couldnt make a dependable automobile if it had to....gonna be interesting
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

  • #2
    Re: Car industry just went to hell

    Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR] View Post
    Apperently Ford and GM are talking about a possible merger or "alliance...


    http://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/ElFin...cid&sortby=ASC


    im sorry but that doesnt sound like its gonna fix either of their problems right now. Ford has enough on its plate and GM couldnt make a dependable automobile if it had to....gonna be interesting
    It will be the death of both of them.

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    • #3
      Re: Car industry just went to hell

      The auto industries have been almost dead before then made a killing in the 90s. I bet they'll do ok in 8 years.

      I can't see these two merging. I would like to see some interesting mergers like, say, Ford and GE. Something that indicates the transportation industry is approaching a transformation, cause it's about time.

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      • #4
        Re: Car industry just went to hell

        Originally posted by leejo View Post
        The auto industries have been almost dead before then made a killing in the 90s. I bet they'll do ok in 8 years.

        I can't see these two merging. I would like to see some interesting mergers like, say, Ford and GE. Something that indicates the transportation energy is approaching a transformation, cause it's about time.
        Now that merger makes sence.


        If this merger does go thru it would make a huge company that could control just under half the car sales in the US. Ford alone owns 8 companies and GM owns 12. Im sure they could make some cool cars, but would they sell is the next question
        that sounds like a good idea trooper.
        -Vulcan

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        • #5
          Re: Car industry just went to hell

          No matter what happens, we can all sleep safe at night knowing that there will still be mass layoffs. Go US auto industry! :P
          [squadl]
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          • #6
            Re: Car industry just went to hell

            Originally posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
            No matter what happens, we can all sleep safe at night knowing that there will still be mass layoffs. Go US auto industry! :P
            Yep! Don't forget to thank the unions.

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            • #7
              Re: Car industry just went to hell

              Sad as it is there are still plenty of consumers that have an emotional investment in Ford vs Chevy and treat their brand like their favourite sports team.

              If they ever come out with a pickup truck that is both a Ford and a Chevy many heads will explode.

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              • #8
                Re: Car industry just went to hell

                Originally posted by leejo View Post
                Yep! Don't forget to thank the unions.

                im glad you said that becuase that is the first thing i thought of. THe companies may wanna merge but i dont see the unions helping to make the process easy
                that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                -Vulcan

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                • #9
                  Re: Car industry just went to hell

                  Interesting topic.

                  Like leejo said they will bounce back.

                  Didn't they bankrupt in the 80s and then make an awsome comeback?

                  Good point about the unions.

                  Anything in exess can kill you. Like water to the body.
                  same with the employees getting paid way to much and having sick awsome health benifits. It is/did destroying the American Auto Industry.

                  Plus foriegn made cars are superior. particularly the Japanese car.

                  I own a Saturn Ion. Hopfully in the next 5-6 years I can get a sweet hybrid. I'll purchase from the Company with the best product and affordable price.

                  I really think the american industries really failed to adpat to the very very sudden change in Americans concerns about burning too much gas in their ride.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Car industry just went to hell

                    Originally posted by Rick_the_new_guy View Post
                    Plus foriegn made cars are superior. particularly the German car.

                    Fixed that for you. :D

                    Last month in Phoenix, I drove a Mustang and a G-35. Meh, I say!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Car industry just went to hell

                      Originally posted by leejo View Post
                      Fixed that for you. :D

                      Last month in Phoenix, I drove a Mustang and a G-35. Meh, I say!
                      Heh. I don't mind German cars, my roommate has an M5 and it is an amazing vehicle. That being said, I would never buy one if reliability was an issue.

                      I like driving my car more than I like sitting in the service department at the dealership. So I bought a Honda.

                      A fast Honda. Reliable, sporty, cheap to maintain? yes sir!

                      Back on topic: Ford is in serious trouble. The mustang was a hit but their profits mostly exist in the truck and SUV markets, which are quickly loosing sales.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Car industry just went to hell

                        Originally posted by BHack View Post
                        Back on topic: Ford is in serious trouble. The mustang was a hit but their profits mostly exist in the truck and SUV markets, which are quickly loosing sales.
                        Personally, I think this is more damning than anything the unions have done. Detroit was giving away sweet pensions and benefits a generation ago because at one time they could well afford to. If Ford hadn't read the market so badly and put all their eggs in the SUV basket, they'd probably be in better shape today.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Car industry just went to hell

                          Originally posted by leejo View Post
                          Yep! Don't forget to thank the unions.
                          Wait a second. It's a false argument to say the unions are largely to blame for the failed state of the US auto industry. The "union worker has to many benefits and makes too much" argument is often pedaled to cover for bad management mistakes. It's like blaming the soldiers for losing the war.

                          Union members are by and large the people who do the assembly line work. The union members are not the one's who designed Ford and GM's automobiles. Nor did they choose the advertising or hire the ad agenices. They also were not included in the board rooms to make strategic decisions about the company's future. Can we blame the union members for bad management decisions like not investing in hybrid technology, relying on SUV's as the main product offering when gas prices were known years ago to rise, or offer heavily discounted rebates which sets bad precedent for the future?
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                          • #14
                            Re: Car industry just went to hell

                            Originally posted by TheFatKidDeath View Post
                            Wait a second. It's a false argument to say the unions are largely to blame for the failed state of the US auto industry. The "union worker has to many benefits and makes too much" argument is often pedaled to cover for bad management mistakes. It's like blaming the soldiers for losing the war.

                            Union members are by and large the people who do the assembly line work. The union members are not the one's who designed Ford and GM's automobiles. Nor did they choose the advertising or hire the ad agenices. They also were not included in the board rooms to make strategic decisions about the company's future. Can we blame the union members for bad management decisions like not investing in hybrid technology, relying on SUV's as the main product offering when gas prices were known years ago to rise, or offer heavily discounted rebates which sets bad precedent for the future?
                            Lets look at this from a cash flow stand point. Unions make up i would say 35% of a cars actual cost. I may be over exagurating it but they do have a HUGE impact on how much a car is gonna cost. Unions have always wanted the best pay and the best benefits which have made the workers "lazy", i mean they get paid the same amount whether they work or not. And unions do have alot of control over what cars a company will build and what new technologies they can use.

                            Example 6 Years ago GM developed a SUV that got 45MPG, was a version of the tahoe, but the unions voted it down because they thought that is those got onto the market less people be buy cars of the other versions and they would get laid off in the long run.
                            that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                            -Vulcan

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                            • #15
                              Re: Car industry just went to hell

                              Originally posted by Steeler View Post
                              Personally, I think this is more damning than anything the unions have done. Detroit was giving away sweet pensions and benefits a generation ago because at one time they could well afford to. If Ford hadn't read the market so badly and put all their eggs in the SUV basket, they'd probably be in better shape today.
                              This is a good point.

                              I still wonder if mega companys like this will play by the same rules as moderate and small business.

                              If I start a small business (Sole Proprietorship) and it fails, My person must pay for all the money that I owe.

                              On the other side of specturm, large Corporation can have their top CEOs and managers walk away from the hole deal if it goes all to hell. sure they lose their job and will struggle to get another high paying job, but they will not need to pay back some of the money the company owes.



                              If the small buisness owner got the same tax breaks as such coporations, then you would see a lot more small business out there and doing well.

                              I need to research just how bad things were in the 80s.

                              Question: Did GM file for chapter X? and sort of go bankrupt. And thanks to the Feds get back on their feet? I need to research this.

                              What is stoping the tax payers from helping them out again.
                              Would this be an example of Corporate welfare?
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