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positive or negitive, you're opinions please

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  • positive or negitive, you're opinions please

    What does you guys think about this?

  • #2
    Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

    Neat history lesson I was unaware of...

    "...the symbol was found in ancient Rome excavations, Grecian sites, on Chinese coins dated 315 BC, on Mayan amulets in Mexico and was known as the emblem of Ganesh, the Hindu god of good luck."

    Whatever it meant then, it doesn't mean now and the studetns should consider that.
    New to TG?


    • #3
      Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

      Originally posted by Some Jewish activist
      Despite this, Henriques insisted that the symbol should be retired. "It should not be used, regardless of its origin. You cannot try to excuse anything on the basis of history. It doesn't hold any water. It doesn't!"
      OK, the holocaust was horrible. There's no denying that. Does that mean we should ban all ovens?

      Y'know, the gay culture has embraced their symbol from the holocaust. The nazis would brand homosexuals with a big triangle. The freshly branded flesh would, of course, be bright pink. Now you can find pink triangles just about anywhere there are gays.

      The idea that we should abandon a symbol simply because it has been "tarnished" is absurd to me. I see no reason why it shouldn't be "shined" again.

      If we don't allow others to use this symbol, then it retains its power to represent horrible ideas.
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      • #4
        Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

        It depends on the context. If a guy with a shaved head and prison tats flies it, then it's probably a symbol of hate. If a hindu draws it, it's a symbol of devotion.

        However, no-one who has studied 20th century history can fail to understand the extend to which the swastika is associated with the genocide of millions of jews. There are other symbols to use that don't remind old people of their time in hell, the last time they saw their parents, sister, friend.

        If a Hindu monk wants to draw the swastika, everyone can respect that. If a teenager wants to wave it at a game, too bad. Pick something else, and show some respect.
        Last edited by leejo; 04-09-2004, 01:07 PM.


        • #5
          Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

          Originally posted by leejo
          the genocide of millions of jews
          and Roman Catholic Poles, and Cing mentioned homosexuals... and there's a lot of other groups that don't seem to be nearly so vocal or well-known but were treated just as badly. Nazi <> Anti-Jew. Nazi = Anti-Everyone-Else. At least, in Hitler's time.

          I entirely agree with leejo that a swastika's meaning is all in the context. It's not a particularly complex symbol, and people tend to like symmetry, so it's probably been invented and re-invented and re-used more times than we know. I seem to recall the American "OK" (forefinger-thumb circle) and the American "good job - thumbs up" are extremely rude in some other countries. Same deal, I think.


          • #6
            Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

            from what I recall from my history lessons the actual symbol was drawn differently in times prior to the german occupations, the "arms" were turned to the other side making it appear to be turning blunt ways in clockwise direction. When Hitler took the symbol for himself he turned it around to give him more power since he turned it sharp end first.

            This minor detail does represent the "good" and "evil" use of the symbol and a great distinction between the two.


            • #7
              Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please


              Web site on why the Nazis' decided to use the swastika and what it meant before Nazi Germany.

              Reven, the Nazis inverted the swastika (Sauvastika).

              Swastika: Life and good luck

              Sauvastika: The mirror image (inverted) of the Swastika. Sometimes associated with misfortune and bad luck.

              The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

              More history. In the 1800s, countries around Germany were growing larger but Germany themselves werent a unified country until 1871 so to look more "powerful" to those around them, they adopted the swastika to represent a long Germanic\Aryan history (the swastika has ancient Aryan\Indian origins). By the end of the nineteenth century it was used as an official emblem of the German Gymnasts' League. That all changed in 1920 when Adolf Hilter decided that the Nazi Party needed its own insignia and flag. On August 7, 1920, the Salzburg Congress made the swastika an official emblem of Nazi Germany. In the Mein Kampf, Hilter described the Nazis' flag: "In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic." (pg. 496-497).

              Kind of ironic in a way.. a symbol for three thousand years meant "life and good luck" and in a short time became a symbol of hatred and violence..

              Sorry, I will shut up now...


              • #8
                Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

                Take the rebel flag nowadays. If you fly it, people assume you are racist while the origin of that flag in the United States was to symbolize that you are a rebel, a non-conformist, going against the grain so to speak.


                • #9
                  Re: positive or negitive, you're opinions please

                  Yeah I never understood that either.. people hate, not flags (or in this case a symbol)..

                  Some people just cant let go I guess..




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