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  • The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...ts-havent.html

    Awesome!

  • #2
    Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

    Great article, right up there with this doozy from 1/7/1946 about how we were losing the peace in Germany after WWII.

    http://www.jessicaswell.com/MT/archives/000872.html

    And of course where the media was wondering if we were "Losing the Peace" in Kosovo...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/684389.stm

    Lucky Shot

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    • #3
      Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

      Seeing how the Democratic party came out in like the 1820s.
      Think Andrew Jackson, This was decades ago. Meaning the Party has changed a lot from back then.
      Actually a lot of people think it is Jefferson's party. But i'll go a head and say Jackson put it on the map

      Seeing how the Republican party came out in the late 1850's.
      Think Ab Lincoln, this was decades ago. Meaning the party has chagned a lot from back then.

      This does not mean history and its understanding of it is not important. This is an interesting piece.

      What it does mean is that over the decades the parties have changed much.

      One thing that has not changed with the Republicans is looking after the people who fianance and make construction happen, and who make up the employers.

      One thing that has not changed with the Demo is looking after the people who do the actuall building and make up the employees.

      The important thing to focus on now is were they stand now.
      Meaning, the names really just eye candy.

      Feel free to call me a know it all but I am convienced that more KKK members vote for rebublican rather than dems in this moment in time. This is a large reason for me not voting repub.
      Also, this neo-conservative stuff and social conservative stuff is really unatractive. I am pretty liberal with social stuff. As long as you close your blinds I am cool.

      Being a young person, my first election was 2000. No way I voted for Bush, thought he was a tool (put in by the GOP machine that destoryed McCain and backed by his fathers people).

      I like the 1980s Republican. I know they would not have had an emergancy session to try to save Terri Shiavo. They would have been all like: Dude, the x-husband has legal power with this situation, we are not going make like Big Brother and meddle with this.
      I like the part when Senator Bill Frist (R) Tenn through his Medical Degree in the garbage when he said he had wathced footage of her and that she could be saved. Meanwhile, his colleges who had been working on her case for years just got a big slap in their face by him when he said that.
      The said thing is Frist is a Damn good Doctor. Performed open heart surgery on my Grandfather 20 year ago in Bristal Tenn and did a fine job.

      What I am trying to say is that the Puritan crowd has a huge amount of influcne on the GOP right now and I do not like it.

      That is one reason the GOP is stuck in the Mud. The party itself is becomeing polarized. They are trying to keep this on the down low though.

      I belive the neoconservative movement will die come 2008 with the exodus of Bush.

      I hope so.

      Regardless, nice thread leejo
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      • #4
        Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

        Originally posted by Rick_the_new_guy View Post

        I like the 1980s Republican. I know they would not have had an emergancy session to try to save Terri Shiavo. They would have been all like: Dude, the x-husband has legal power with this situation, we are not going make like Big Brother and meddle with this.
        LOL, Rick, how many ex-husbands do you think would love to have control over ex-wives' medical decisions? The whole point of that fiasco was that he wasn't an ex-husband, he just happened to be living with, raising children with, and engaged to another woman. But I can see where you would be confused and think that maybe he wasn't married to her anymore. He just needed her to die before he could move on.
        ---
        Sources say the Dow Jones' decline is directly related to Dethklok front-man Nathan Explosion's constant deleting of potential new albums.

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        • #5
          Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

          Since I see the world through the prism of South Park, I'd say she had actually died a long time ago. It just took the legal process forever to exhaust itself and the artificial extension of her life to be withdrawn. In the meantime, the husband had moved on whilee the lawyers and judges did their thing.

          I'm not sure we disagree,but FWIW I'm pretty sure I'd make the same decision he did with regard to keeping her on life support. I'm all for making every effort to keep a loved one alive, but...damn.

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          • #6
            Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

            @Switchcraft. Good save. Thanks for the clarification.
            That's right, he still was married. Your right, tons of ex-husbands would want that kind of control lol. Little embarrased about my mistake, put at least it has been rectified.
            Making my point more bright, the Feds should of stayed clear of the situation, not spend thousands of tax payers in having an ermergancy session for something that is between a husband and his wife.

            IMO, The Repub controlled Congress did it to look after big time donation support. team social conservative.

            The good thing is that the autoposy showe that she was already done for so she did not suffer.
            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8225637/

            I was facinated by the children out side the hospital who were crying and in a fair amount of emotional trama over this scenerio. Sadly her Cerberal Cortex had already liquafied somewhat and had checked out of the Hotel but left her bags at the door.

            I was very relieved to see that most of Ameria did not like the Feds getting involved in this.
            Very relieved indeed.
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            • #7
              Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

              Originally posted by Rick
              Feel free to call me a know it all but I am convienced that more KKK members vote for rebublican rather than dems in this moment in time. This is a large reason for me not voting repub.
              Somethings change I guess... Only KKK guy I can think of is a democrat senator from West Virginia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd

              Lucky Shot

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              • #8
                Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                So, we're comparing a Republican party who actually cared about civil rights to the current Republican party? A Republican might have freed the slaves, but a Democrat gave blacks equal rights.

                And we also claim the Republicans thought the Civil War was a good thing? Warmongering is bad enough, but when it's done to your own people...

                Maybe a quote from 100+ years ago can apply today because the wars share something in common: they're pointless. This guy considers the South our enemy. Now, I'm no Confederate nutjob, but even I can realize that theses were our own countrymen, not some faceless enemy.

                This guy is a whackjob.

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                • #9
                  Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                  Good find Lucky, here is a quote from your hyperlink:
                  "He participated in the KKK for a period of time during World War II, holding the titles "Kleagle", which indicated a Klan recruiter, and "Exalted Cyclops"."
                  Source: Bird's Wikki. See Lucky Shot's hyper link.



                  You said it TheFenix.

                  In many ways the partys have nearly completely changed.

                  I found it amusing when Bush finally adrressed the N.A.A.C.P. (i think) and was talking about Lincoln and the biginning of the party and such like it happend a couple of generations ago (20 year being a generation). That was very spookey.

                  !!Warning!!! Rick is fixin to say things about Lincoln that will make him anti amercian.

                  During the Cival War Lincoln went against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights like no other. Not a fan of that.

                  Granted the purge needed to be done.

                  ironys are:
                  Lincoln did not campaign to abolish slavery in the 1860 election.

                  He would have been comfortable keeping slavery to perserve the union.

                  Making the war about slavery well into it, changed the perception of it. Plus, it took away a lot of the support of the Confederate States of America; and the Union got a lot of warriors out of the exchange after the Emancipation Proclamation.

                  The biggest irony was that the person who held out and perserved the Union ( the C.S.A. nearly had it won early on, but Lincoln held on.) was the biggest chapion to reconstruct the south.
                  Indeed after the war in Appamatox Court House Virginia, Lee's surrender to Grant and the Union, the Union soilders practically saluted them!!! ( man what noble times). They even got to keep their horses and save passage home!!! good night. http://www.nps.gov/archive/apco/gentl.htm.
                  So you see, things were getting off to a good start.

                  Back on track for the biggest irony. When John Booth and company destoyed Lincoln, they destroyed the reconstruction of the south, the repercussions are still felt today!!!
                  In the 1866 and 1868 elections the Republicans took over the Federal Governemnt and in their rage stuck it to the South.
                  I remember reading that in Mississippi they had two Black U.S. Senators in the 1870s!! (Back then, people could not directly vote for a U.S. Senator, the Fed Represenative did)
                  Holy Cow, can you imagine the rage of the white dudes in that state. Big time rage. The slaves that were beneath them in every way were know making laws and representing them, in a way become the master. This and many other things made reconstruction garbage in the South. Even though I said this happend a long time ago;
                  Some alive now could have a grand father in the Cival War easy. I doubt it though. Born 1840, had son in 1880 (40 year old). Son had kid when he was 40 in 1920. The grand kid of the Dude in the Cival war is now 86 years of age.

                  I know what your thinking, why aren't there black U.S. Senators in the South today Rick? And how did the blacks lose the right to vote in elections and such creating the Cival Rights movement?
                  Well the Union troops who were around during the reconstruction left (1877) and when they did the Klan were unchecked and the dark times begain. I am talking major league terror hear gang. Very sad and horrilbe stuff. By the time the 1900s were under way Blacks had about as much political power as they did before the Cival War ( in Dixie that is). Truly a dark time for the country. It is amazing, that only 40 year ago Blacks were fighting for the right to vote when their grand father could have been a U.S. Senator or Representative!
                  A good source to read: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/intro/intro_a.htm

                  Note, I am not giving the current Republicans (today) down the road for the garbage reconstruction that went on in the south. That was some time ago, and like I said, the parties resemble little of what they did then.

                  P.S. it is my opinoin that reconstruction was garbage, it may have actually went well.
                  Also Rick is not an historion, intel could be wrong.

                  The bottom line is that allowing the South to all a sudden have formor slaves have so much power politcally was not a wise call.
                  Last edited by Rick_the_new_guy; 10-28-2006, 10:37 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                    Here is a link that has a show about the Reconstruction post Cival War.

                    !!! Warning this is P.B.S. link, if you think the station has a liberal objective, do not click on this American Experience website. !!!!

                    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconst...ram/index.html

                    _____

                    Thinking about this stuff I wonder why there was not a underground gurillia campaing in 1865.

                    General Lee was against it. And in those days, Lee was a titan and a wise warrior sage. Remember, Lee was in command of the Army of Northern Virginia and we he said, surrender it's over, his army obyed.

                    I am also thinking about the coparison and contrasts to Amercian reconstruction and Iraqi reconstruction and what was done wrong and right.

                    There are similiarties. More to come.
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                    • #11
                      Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                      The biggest thing the two case studies have in common is:

                      1. A society that has existed for generations and generations is suddenly changed over night.
                      White Males in Dixie.
                      Arab Sunnis in Iraq.
                      The psychological aspects are super huge.

                      2. The political authority that both these cultures knew and obliged by was suddenly gone!!

                      The Confederate States of America’s higher form of Government was erased over night.
                      The Bathist party (the Sunnis’ ran this party) were erased over night.

                      3. At one point both these too cultures were the majority with political power in ever way.
                      However, this changed quickly.
                      With the new laws they were now present a former part of their culture had changed big time.

                      14th Amendment gave former Slaves citizenship and number 15 gave former Slaves the right to vote.
                      This caused the White males to lose political power!! Many Whites decided to boycott the elections when this was done because their former Slaves now were the majority and could vote Blacks into office.

                      With the new Iraqi Government being set up the Sunnis were now the minority and the elections were going to be democratic (Shei could vote and they out numbered the Sunnis). Sunnies see this as bull crap, many Sunnies boycotted the election.

                      (Note, the White males got shafted more in this scenario because at least the Sunnies were able to have a set amount of seats no matter what)

                      4. Outsiders from their culture came in with their money and political power in order for increasing their political power and to make a profit.

                      To the White males, these people were seen as “Carpetbaggers”. Land was cheap and “Damn Yankees” were able buy up cheap land and exploit the Federal Laws during Reconstruction. Land that was not their’s by the opinion of the White males of Dixie. Many a Carpetbagger lost their live in these enterprises.

                      To the Sunnis, outsiders came in to make profit and gain more political power. The Sunnies rejected this also. Many an outsider who began an enterprise in Iraq during the current reconstruction have been murdered.

                      5. During the Reconstruction and occupation of a foreign army, humiliation is prevalent. Many times a center piece is focused on to vent rage and to regain and prevent further lose of power.

                      For the White Males “White Supremacy” came about. In order to regain their former cultural past, and regain their political might, their former Slaves needed to be but in place. Enter big time terror.

                      For the Sunnies their anger is direct at the Sheiu. Like before, enter big time terror.

                      (The White males of Dixie did not have an insurgency and guerilla rebellion during Reconstruction. The Sunnies are just doing that. With time they got away from hitting the invaders and are focuses more and more on the Sheiu.)

                      6. The invaders leave, now what?

                      Known as the “Compromise of 1877” this ended Reconstruction in the South. The Union troops left, the polical might of the Republicans left and with it came: The Jim Crow Laws were crated, enter the ("Redeemers" and "Bourbon Democrats”. The wick on White Supremacy was turned up. Lynching become all too common. Big time terror gang, big time terror!

                      The invaders have not left Iraq. So time will tell if Dark times will come over the Shiea in Iraq. The Sunnie know that one day the invaders will leave, when that day comes, Will dark times will envelope Iraq like they did in Dixie?

                      The Question is:
                      How much former political might will the Sunnie regain after the invaders leave?
                      Will they be replaced for good by Al-Quadia?
                      Will Shei from around the region support their cousins?
                      Just how much of their former culture exist in order to “Rise Agiain”




                      In conclusion, this post rocks. /Rick pats himself on the back. JK.
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                      • #12
                        Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                        Originally posted by Rick_the_new_guy View Post
                        In conclusion, this post rocks. /Rick pats himself on the back. JK.
                        Nice comparison. =)

                        With a little bit of a chilling conclusion. It took, what, a hundred years after the end of the civil war before the civil rights movement made Blacks equal and finished the fighting? I hope it doesn't take that long in Iraq.

                        But at the end of it, we were much better off for it. I guess the hope is that we can jumpstart the process in Iraq so it doesn't take them a century like it took us. Open question whether it will work.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                          Being from the deep south I think the kkk would be on the dem. side.

                          Most of the kkk now are a radical group akin to the nazis.
                          The Old Guy
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                          • #14
                            Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                            @Kerostasis, thanks chief.

                            Although those are just similarites, it allows the Amercian person to understand the ramifications of having your culture totally changed over night. Dixie has a understanding of this, but ironically many warhawks who won't the south to rise again, fail to see the similarties.
                            Sadly, people cannot put themsevles in the shoes of the Sunnie and understand why they are rejected the "New Iraq".
                            Think: Know thine enemy, and it will make more tactical sence.

                            Yeah, in the spring of 2003, when I heard Coilition forces were totally 86ing the Bathist party, I was all like: "that can't be good."

                            I also thought about how it took hundred years for Blacks to finally get their props and if it would take that long for the Sheia to or the end of the "Dark times" as I put it (big time terror).
                            ____________
                            With regards to were the KKK vote now a days

                            Seeing how 9 out of 10 Blacks vote Democrate today, I would asume the KKK would not vote for a party that their arch enemy likes and wants in power.

                            That is a good point, the Klan are extremist today and their numbers go down with each generation.
                            thank heavens.
                            Last edited by Rick_the_new_guy; 10-28-2006, 04:07 PM.
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                            • #15
                              Re: The More Things Change The More They Stay The Same

                              I am not sure I understand the point of this post.

                              A significant number of Americans against war? Of course. A large number of people during the revolutionary war didn't really want to separate from England. Every conflict America has entered into has had a large number of individuals against it. You are surprised people don't like war?

                              A free press constantly questioning the actions of the government? Questioning the effectiveness of the current administration? I would hope so. Why else have a free press?

                              Political parties always shifting positions and pandering to sub-cultures or controversial groups? That is necessary to the "market place of ideas". Without this behavior I cannot see how bad ideas would be thrown out and good ideas allowed to flourish. And those minority groups get a voice thus they don't have to rise up in armed revolt. Democracy is indeed great.


                              All the above is good. A bit o' chaos keeps those in power thinking twice.

                              The only thing that angers me about the current administration is that they appear resentful that Americans are not just falling in line and supporting everything they want to do. They took a chance and it didn't work. (Short term anyway.)

                              It is sad that so many had to die on a gamble. Why not morn that fact? Why not acknowledge it?
                              Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                              - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
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