Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

    From p. A13 of today's WaPo.

    With a potentially historic U.S. midterm election on Tuesday and the war in Iraq a major issue at the polls, many soldiers said the United States should not abandon its effort here. Such a move, enlisted soldiers and officers said, would set Iraq on a path to civil war, give new life to the insurgency and create the possibility of a failed state after nearly four years of fighting to implant democracy.

  • #2
    Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

    I've never been of the opinion that if we pull out, things will turn into all candy and sunshine over there. I simply think that civil war is going to (arguably already is) happen whether we're there or not. Thus I see little point in delaying the inevitable at the cost of US and allied lives.

    As for the last two comments, strengthening the insurgency and creating a failed state... well, it's a little late to worry about that from where I stand. I'm glad to see the soldiers in the article seemed to be in high spirits, however.
    [squadl]
    "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

      Aren't the Iraqi people best suited to answer the question?

      http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=957

      "Majorities of both Sunni Arabs (82%) and Shiites (69%) also favor U.S. forces withdrawing either immediately or after an elected government is in place."

      Imagine Iraq had invaded the US and Iraqi soldiers were asked if they thought leaving would have devastating results. Sound absurd?
      |TG-9th| TheFatKidDeath
      "Born to Party, Forced to Work."
      - Check me out on The Onion
      - I'm on the local news!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

        So you support these absurd troops, just not the war?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

          We are caught in the coward's lament. Unwilling to risk the resources and personnel necessary to win a decisive victory (from the start), and unable to withdraw for fear of lossing face. A weird tragic pychodrama playing out on the global stage.

          Of course pulling out would be disastrous. Staying will also be disastrous.
          In game handle: Steel Scion
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

            Originally posted by leejo View Post
            So you support these absurd troops, just not the war?
            I don't accept the wording of your question which in my opinion is a false choice. I do support the troops and am in agreement with a majority of those who are actually on the front lines:

            http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

            "An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows."
            |TG-9th| TheFatKidDeath
            "Born to Party, Forced to Work."
            - Check me out on The Onion
            - I'm on the local news!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

              Oh that old poll. Interesting.

              Michael O’Hanlon, defence analyst at the liberal Brookings Institution, suggested that the Zogby poll may not accurately capture the mood of US troops based on his conversations with military officers. He pointed out that military retention rates - the rate at which troops who have fulfilled their committment to the military re-enlist - were above 100 per cent for most units, suggesting that troops were not disaffected by the mission in Iraq.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                Originally posted by Steeler View Post
                We are caught in the coward's lament. Unwilling to risk the resources and personnel necessary to win a decisive victory (from the start), and unable to withdraw for fear of lossing face. A weird tragic pychodrama playing out on the global stage.

                Of course pulling out would be disastrous. Staying will also be disastrous.
                War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory. Of course if one side takes its ball and goes home, the other wins.

                FWIW I'm not caught in the coward's lament. I'm not suggesting that we quit. I don't see this as "a weird tragic psychodrama being played out," I think it's a battle between a group of people in this country who lack the will and vision to press through to the end, and a group who believe that we need to keep putting one foot in front of the other until we bring this job to a successful conclusion.

                These soldiers on p. A13 today seem to agree with me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                  Well, I guess they owe you a beer. There are a lot of people who used to say that all we needed to win in Vietnam was "will" and "vision." And when we didn't, they started to blame the troops for not fighting or believing hard enough. As Iraq continues to slide into chaos, who will you blame? The troops? The Iraqis? The media? A certain "group of people in this country"? Because it certainly couldn't have been a failure of vision to begin with, could it? It couldn't possibly be just a bad idea from the start.

                  Wishful thinking is not a strategy for victory.
                  In game handle: Steel Scion
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                    Neither is pessimism!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                      Originally posted by leejo View Post
                      Oh that old poll. Interesting.
                      Your right, eight months is old for gathering of polling information. I can only speculate, but I'm reasonably certain that if Zogby conducted the same poll today of our troops deployed in Iraq the results would be the same. The situation in Iraq has not gotten better than it was eight months ago so it's hard to believe opinions of those troops surveyed have changed as when the Zogby poll was conducted.

                      If the troops are not disaffected by their mission in Iraq then why would the Zogby poll indicate otherwise? Is Zogby lying? Is the methodology used to conduct the poll inaccurate?
                      |TG-9th| TheFatKidDeath
                      "Born to Party, Forced to Work."
                      - Check me out on The Onion
                      - I'm on the local news!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                        Originally posted by Steeler View Post
                        Wishful thinking is not a strategy for victory.
                        I've taken a lot of Electricity and Magnetism classes and I gotta tell you, there is a lot of power in positive thinking.


                        (har har har)

                        *dodges shepherds hook*
                        ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
                        No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

                        <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                          Originally posted by TheFatKidDeath View Post
                          Aren't the Iraqi people best suited to answer the question?
                          Not until we tell them they are. And what the answer is. :P
                          [squadl]
                          "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                            Originally posted by TheFatKidDeath View Post
                            I don't accept the wording of your question which in my opinion is a false choice.
                            What about your own false choice?

                            Originally posted by TheFatKidDeath View Post
                            Aren't the Iraqi people best suited to answer the question?

                            http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=957

                            "Majorities of both Sunni Arabs (82%) and Shiites (69%) also favor U.S. forces withdrawing either immediately or after an elected government is in place."
                            So...most Iraqis either want the US to withdraw now or later? What a revelation! Note also that poll is nearly 2 years old, and was taken before Iraq had held its first national vote--which was a great success, by the way. The situation is so different today they are almost uncomparable.

                            Which isn't to say that most Iraqis don't still want the US to leave either now or eventually. ;) But the definition of that point of stability, after which the troops should leave, is a vitally important part of that question that was rather glossed over in your poll.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

                              So Zogby's poll is overriden by a guy who says that his conversations with officers - whom constitute a small percentage of all soldiers - run contrary to the poll's findings? Nice.

                              It may be interesting to note that most American troops believe that a civil war will break out if we leave now. Their perspective, coming from 'the ground,' is certainly a valuable asset from which to draw when making policy decisions. But I fail to see the relevance in this particular situation: I believe most everyone already agrees with these soldier's opinions on this issue. Rare indeed is the fellow who says that Iraq will host anything other than civil war were we to leave.

                              The real question, it seems, is what do we do, given this information? Iraq already contains, after all, a medium intensity civil war now. Most of our troops apparently believe that this will turn into a high intensity civil war if we leave. But what if we stay? And for how long will the war be high-intensity were we to leave? There are several other connected questions which we must ask before reaching our conclusion of where to go from here. We are caught in what appears to be an extremely complex and difficult situation with no clear best path.
                              A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                              "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X