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  • Smoking bans are getting better?

    http://www.helenair.com/articles/200...1012007_02.txt

    BANGOR, Maine — Tonya Henderson will have to be more careful where she lights up her Marlboros.

    Bangor is banning smoking in cars if children are present, and Henderson, 24, is accustomed to having a cigarette when her boyfriend’s 7-year-old daughter is in the back seat.

    She is just the kind of person Bangor had in mind when it passed the ordinance, which has delighted some and angered others, caused complaints about invasion of privacy and even threats to boycott the city, Maine’s second-largest. The ordinance, which takes effect Friday, allows the police to stop cars if an adult is smoking while a child under 18 is a passenger. The smoker can be fined $50
    Thats pretty cool. I hate driveing and seeing these parents with babys in the back smoking and you can see the smoke just linger in the car. To me the child should be taken and the parents charged with child abuse. The fine isnt much but its enough for a smoker to think twice about lighting up with a child in the car.
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

  • #2
    Re: Smoking banns are getting better

    This belongs in the Sandbox?
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    • #3
      Re: Smoking banns are getting better

      its not in the sandbox.....i dint feel it needed to be in there. But thanks for helping contribute to the discussion of this topic
      that sounds like a good idea trooper.
      -Vulcan

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      • #4
        Re: Smoking banns are getting better

        I endorse it.

        I believe that is physical abuse and someone should have the minor's back.

        Plus I read on a back of a ceral box that smoking retards the lungs and is a carcinagen.

        I believe if the kid is continually exposed to smoke, social services should drop the hammer.

        Granted, I do not mind when a business owner decides to have a all smoking bar/pub. Granted, if i own the building, I would not lease to someone who would do this. The stench would be too hard to get rid of.
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        • #5
          Re: Smoking banns are getting better

          As a former smoker with a child, Im all for this ban. My daughter has sinus problems and asthma and use to be prone to ear infections. All of these things can be proven to be as a result of being exposed to second hand smoke.

          My negligence has caused my child who is now 13 to suffer health issues as a result for the rest of her life! I think that fine is too lenient by far.

          If only I could go back.......
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          • #6
            Re: Smoking banns are getting better

            Policies don't get much more intrusive than this.
            A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

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            • #7
              Re: Smoking banns are getting better

              Originally posted by xTYBALTx View Post
              Policies don't get much more intrusive than this.

              I dont understand that statement.
              that sounds like a good idea trooper.
              -Vulcan

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              • #8
                Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                He's saying this policy infringes on people's personal choices and actions. A lot of people don't want legislation that gets this far into our personal space. It makes sense really, though I assume since you're not a smoker it would be hard to view this as destructive but as an improvement. However, the larger issue at hand is how much of a hold do you want the government to have on your own life?

                I guess you should imagine if a town prohibited bikes, and all the paper boys who used to bike around now had to walk. It's a completely different situation, but the issue is the same. Where is the line?
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                • #9
                  Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                  Originally posted by Zephyr View Post
                  He's saying this policy infringes on people's personal choices and actions. A lot of people don't want legislation that gets this far into our personal space. It makes sense really, though I assume since you're not a smoker it would be hard to view this as destructive but as an improvement. However, the larger issue at hand is how much of a hold do you want the government to have on your own life?

                  I guess you should imagine if a town prohibited bikes, and all the paper boys who used to bike around now had to walk. It's a completely different situation, but the issue is the same. Where is the line?
                  -Zephyr
                  what?

                  Im against the government infringements yes, but when the parents cant be responsible enough to protect their own kids, who A) don't have a choice in sitting in a car while a parent or both smokes it up and B) cant get out of the car and beat their parents for the years of medical issues they are gonna have.

                  I mean come on.....
                  that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                  -Vulcan

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                  • #10
                    Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                    /Rick fully endorses Trooper's last post.

                    The biggest thing we are looking at here is

                    Physical damage to the minor. I am for less government control; however, I put this right in the same category as physical abuse and mental/emotional abuse.

                    Cigs, junk the body.

                    I mean come on......
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                    • #11
                      Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                      Yah, the government is there to force punishment and protection on those that take their right to action, in the process of hurting another. As soon as your action hurts another individual it's wrong and if the governement has a law against it, good for them.

                      My gripe is that the fine is too small. I can see why they made it small but I hope they increase it. I mean if these people are buying cigarettes, anything less than 100 bucks shouldn't hurt them you know?

                      -Sirusblk

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                      • #12
                        Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                        Theres a number of problems with this, the first being wastes of private citizens time and police manpower. What i'm speaking of is mistaken identity.
                        Dont think it can happen? Please. I'm a living example. Let me give you a taste of how it could work.

                        The following is a REAL description of me. No, i'm not kidding with any of it. Laugh if you please, im plenty used to it.

                        I'm 24 years old. I'm 5'6". When clean shaven, i look like i'm 13-15 years old. I get asked if i want a kids menu or a "real" menu at restaurants and I respond by asking for the wine list. I get ID'd by cops for being out after curfew all the freaking time. I get hassled by cops for underage smoking all the freaking time. Since I turned 18, I have been placed in handcuffs for supposedly smoking underage, underage purchase of cigarettes, and posession of a fake ID (which was my real drivers license) exactly 9 times. Now, you cant say cops around here are anal, because its been all over the country: 4 times in Tampa, FL. 2 times in Boulder, CO. Once in Washington D.C. Once in Key West. Once in Seattle, WA. Since I turned 21, I have had over 10 experiences of the same nature involving alcohol. I have no DUIs, have no recorded traffic infractions, and I dont do stupid things like drinking in public. I either go to bars, friends houses or drink in the privacy of my home. I always have a designated driver.

                        So what would stop a cop from pulling over and hassling someone I was riding in a car with who happened to be smoking? Nothing. I'm not a unique case folks. I know lots of short people. I know lots of young-looking people. So if I've caught this much hassle over my appearance, how do you think this law would pan out?

                        Now I'm not saying I'm not for it. But how is smoking in a car different from chain smoking in your living room with a 3 year old watching cartoons? Its not, fundamentally. It's a questionable law and will most likely fail after things like what i've pointed out come to light.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                          Good point about smoking in the home.

                          I think we should train the kids to Narc their parents out if they smoke inside.

                          I know this sounds like I am contridicting my anti Government 1984 mentallity I post on the forums: "Once the Feds get the kids to start Narcing on their parents for cigs, then it will be guns, and speaking out against the Feds."

                          I am willing to take that chance people. I am willing to risk Big Brother getting a stronger hold on us in order for the youth and future leaders of America to not be retared by cig smoke.

                          It is not like America's population is like Denver Colorado's; I mean, we are in bad shape.
                          And the sickest population in America is the youths.
                          Where is The Big White guy, a.k.a. El Gringo Grande with thinking about the children.

                          However, If someone owns a home and wants to smoke four packs a day with adults around, more power to them. However, if we are in the same insurance network, I hope he has the immune system of George Burns, cause sucks for me when he helps makes the premeums go up.
                          Last edited by Rick_the_new_guy; 01-21-2007, 11:43 PM.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                            Originally posted by Rick_the_new_guy View Post
                            However, If someone owns a home and wants to smoke four packs a day with adults around, more power to them. However, if we are in the same insurance network, I hope he has the immune system of George Burns, cause sucks for me when he helps makes the premeums go up.
                            Thats why insurance companies charge separate premiums for smokers and non-smokers. :)

                            I hear Ferris' point about mistaken identity. That'll really depend on the execution of the law. The way it looks from my limited information is that this is more of a scare tactic than anything else: a way for the city to loudly proclaim its disapproval of car-smoking, without necessarily needing to do anything about it. I expect enforcement of this to be about the same as enforcement of speed limits. Technically, a cop could pull you over for going 2 miles above the speed limit, but it never actually happens. If the cop has some other reason to want to throw the book at you though, he can use that as an excuse.

                            But if I'm wrong, and they pursue this aggressively, then we might have a problem.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Smoking bans are getting better?

                              Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                              I expect enforcement of this to be about the same as enforcement of speed limits. Technically, a cop could pull you over for going 2 miles above the speed limit, but it never actually happens. If the cop has some other reason to want to throw the book at you though, he can use that as an excuse.

                              But if I'm wrong, and they pursue this aggressively, then we might have a problem.
                              This is a bad, bad way of looking at legislation. You have no idea how demoralizing it is to be tasked with enforcing laws, having laws on the books, and then to be told not to enforce certain laws quite so much. I'm not talking about common sense discretion, I'm talking about not being allowed to enforce the law.

                              Either you think this law should be in effect, or you don't. Don't hope that it's only enforced in situations where you're not involved!
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