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  • Gaming makes better surgeons.

    http://www.playfuls.com/news_004874_...c_Surgeon.html


    The study says that past video game play in excess of 3 h/week correlated with 37% fewer errors and 27% faster completion. Overall Top Gun score (time and errors) was 33% better for video game players and 42% better if they played more than 3 h/week. Current video game players made 32% fewer errors, performed 24% faster, and scored 26% better overall (time and errors) than their non-playing colleagues. When comparing demonstrated video gaming skills, those in the top tertile made 47% fewer errors, performed 39% faster, and scored 41% better on the overall Top Gun score.
    So next time you have surgery ask him if he is a gamer. Him/her being a Level 70 paladin could mean the difference between life or death.
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

  • #2
    Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

    Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR] View Post
    So next time you have surgery ask him if he is a gamer. Him/her being a Level 70 paladin could mean the difference between life or death.
    Yes, because if he is, he is likely working on about 4 hours of sleep! :row__735:
    Peace through fear... since 1947!

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    • #3
      Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

      good point. But then again most doctors average that amount of sleep anyways. So now he is tired, but has better reflexes
      that sounds like a good idea trooper.
      -Vulcan

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      • #4
        Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

        I worked in surgery 10 years. From what I have seen in the OR, I have no idea how the public chooses good surgeons. There are no checks or professional critique after they get out of medical school. 90% are so incompetent, I wouldn't let them squish a pimple, and the public is oblivious. Most people choose surgeons based on another doctors recommendation, but the referring doc has never been in the operating room with their recommendation. And is out of the referring docs scope of practice to eventuate the end result. End of rant-
        Getting back to the post, the few surgeons I know who are tech literate or are gamers are great surgeons. Outside of knowing someone that actually watches them work. If your doc is tearing it up on BF2, I would have to agree that he is probably a decent surgeon.

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        • #5
          Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

          This is a quasi experimental study. The classic error here is to attribute causality to videogame playing. Thus, the reader comes away thinking that playing video games improves their performance in surgery. It could very well be that being really good laparoscopy surgeons leads people to play more video games. The two variables are related, but to say one caused another is wrongheaded. More likely is that there is some third variable such as manual dexterity that makes people enjoy playing video games and also excelent surgeons.

          “Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough!” Benjamin Franklin

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          • #6
            Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

            Originally posted by sc1ence View Post
            This is a quasi experimental study. The classic error here is to attribute causality to videogame playing. Thus, the reader comes away thinking that playing video games improves their performance in surgery. It could very well be that being really good laparoscopy surgeons leads people to play more video games. The two variables are related, but to say one caused another is wrongheaded. More likely is that there is some third variable such as manual dexterity that makes people enjoy playing video games and also excelent surgeons.
            I looked at it from the simple standpoint of increased hand-eye coordination coming from playing from video games, rather than video games directly increase your surgical ability. Manual dexterity does play a big role, but you definitely need to have your fingers and eyes in sync when you're cutting or stitching.
            [squadl]
            "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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            • #7
              Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

              Tell me one of you has played Trauma Center: Second Opinion on the Wii?
              That's a damn good surgery sim, fun game too.

              It wouldn't surprise me that constantly training yourself with more precise motions, whether it be by mouse or wiimote, would transfer over well into surgical hand-eye coordination.
              -Zephyr
              You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

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              Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

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              • #8
                Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                I saw a similar story on AFN TV (american forces network) a couple years ago. The Air Force once trained students who were learning laproscopic surgery with a simulator. I believe they split up the students. They made half the students play Super Monkey Ball for the gamecube before doing the simulated surgery. The other half didn't. The group who played the game outperformed the non-players by quite a huge margin. They took right to the surgery like it was nothing. Pretty neat to see. I'll try and find a link.
                "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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                • #9
                  Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                  Originally posted by Hambergler View Post
                  I worked in surgery 10 years. From what I have seen in the OR, I have no idea how the public chooses good surgeons. There are no checks or professional critique after they get out of medical school. 90% are so incompetent, I wouldn't let them squish a pimple, and the public is oblivious. Most people choose surgeons based on another doctors recommendation, but the referring doc has never been in the operating room with their recommendation. And is out of the referring docs scope of practice to eventuate the end result.

                  Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
                  I saw a similar story on AFN TV (american forces network) a couple years ago. The Air Force once trained students who were learning laproscopic surgery with a simulator. I believe they split up the students. They made half the students play Super Monkey Ball for the gamecube before doing the simulated surgery. The other half didn't. The group who played the game outperformed the non-players by quite a huge margin. They took right to the surgery like it was nothing. Pretty neat to see. I'll try and find a link.
                  Well it's good to know that if I go under the knife my surgeon could be largely incompetent and his training less effective then a game of Super Monkey Ball. This is by far the most reasuring thread ever.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                    Originally posted by Zephyr View Post
                    Tell me one of you has played Trauma Center: Second Opinion on the Wii?
                    That's a damn good surgery sim, fun game too.

                    It wouldn't surprise me that constantly training yourself with more precise motions, whether it be by mouse or wiimote, would transfer over well into surgical hand-eye coordination.
                    -Zephyr
                    That's a hell of a fun game. One of the best Wii games available atm.

                    But I'd have to agree. Gaming is a repetative hand-eye excercise. So it would make sense to me that if you play a lot of particularily PC (or Wii I suppose) games, you would see an increase in ability in a hand-eye related job. That's not to say that H-E is the only factor I'd want in my surgeon, though.
                    a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
                    Celibacy is not Hereditary.
                    Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
                    Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                      My surgeon pwnz0rzzz!
                      A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                      "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

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                      • #12
                        Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                        Originally posted by Arf View Post
                        Well it's good to know that if I go under the knife my surgeon could be largely incompetent and his training less effective then a game of Super Monkey Ball. This is by far the most reasuring thread ever.
                        Heh, people in general seem to be under the impression that doctors and surgeons are just these awesome, elite fixing machines. I wish that were the case, but sadly, it's not. This isn't to say that I want any old schmoe from the street cutting me open, but mistakes and bad things happen.

                        I was a vet assistant for several years when I was younger, and I got to help in the surgeries. One night the best vet that we had needed to operate on a dog to put pins in a broken leg. I had helped on several of these types of operations before, and I knew they were lengthy processes. I had other things to do that night, so I simply helped them set up and went to treat other animals. About 10min later I come back and they're finishing up. I said "wow, that was fast". The vet said, "yep. now we get to start again". Turns out they had cut open the wrong leg all the way down to the bone before they realized the mistake.

                        Now that others have ruined your view on doctors, I'm glad to have also ruined your outlook on vets. :P
                        [squadl]
                        "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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                        • #13
                          Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                          Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR] View Post
                          good point. But then again most doctors average that amount of sleep anyways. So now he is tired, but has better reflexes
                          Who told you that? It certainly isn't true where I come from.
                          Peace through fear... since 1947!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Gaming makes better surgeons.

                            Originally posted by Hambergler View Post
                            I worked in surgery 10 years. From what I have seen in the OR, I have no idea how the public chooses good surgeons. There are no checks or professional critique after they get out of medical school. 90% are so incompetent, I wouldn't let them squish a pimple, and the public is oblivious. Most people choose surgeons based on another doctors recommendation, but the referring doc has never been in the operating room with their recommendation. And is out of the referring docs scope of practice to eventuate the end result. End of rant-
                            Getting back to the post, the few surgeons I know who are tech literate or are gamers are great surgeons. Outside of knowing someone that actually watches them work. If your doc is tearing it up on BF2, I would have to agree that he is probably a decent surgeon.
                            I 1000% agree with hambergler here. Yes, that's one-thousand percent. I'm currently and ICU nurse, but I have been an OR nurse and about 75% of the time, I knew more about the particular proceedure and about medicine overall than the surgeon that was in the OR with me. I dont trust most surgeons. If I havent worked with them in the OR and had their competency proven to me firsthand. Either that, or i've seen their record and they have a strong reputation. If we have any surgeons out there, no offense, but I dont trust your lot.

                            And Icky/Trooper: The amount of sleep depends entirely on the person, position and schedule. I've had times that I've been able to get a cool 40 hours of sleep if I so desired and still had enough time to be up, go grab a nice meal and then slowly take the scenic route to the hospital before work. Other times I've gone 4 days sans sleep because I only had a 2 hour break between back to back to back to back to back shifts and HAD to eat. Most times you can average between 6-8 hours of sleep if you have a heavy workload.

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