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  • Faith & Politics

    Tonight, at 7 pm EST on CNN, Clinton, Edwards and Obama are going to sit down with Soledad O'Brien to discuss their faith and the impact it has on their ability to lead our nation.

    Is there anyone else who finds this appalling? It really disturbs me how religion is becoming so intertwined with politics. The idea that they need to be gaining votes by simply being religious as opposed to dealing with real issues such as health reform, immigration, economy, education, war, etc et al disgusts me. Am I alone in this?

    Would not this time be better used to discuss the issues?

    Will Americans not vote for an atheist leader who CAN make positive changes for our nation? Would they instead put their vote in for a slightly incompetent buffoon simply because he/she represents higher religious morality? Why is it necessary we discuss a candidates faith at all?

    As someone who DOES believe in God it boggles my mind. I would rather elect a leader, not a preacher.

    Let's discuss this.
    Last edited by Atomic Dog; 06-04-2007, 02:29 PM.
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  • #2
    Re: Faith & Politics

    I have no faith in politicians.
    Peace through fear... since 1947!

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    • #3
      Re: Faith & Politics

      Originally posted by icky View Post
      I have no faith in politicians.
      QFT
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      • #4
        Re: Faith & Politics

        Well there can be two sides to this. There might be politicians who use their "faith" to serve their own interests, such as advancing their political career. On the other side, there may be politicians whose faith is responsible, in a positive way, for them serving their God and their fellow Americans. So although it can be annoying in some politicians, it can be a very positive thing in others. There's no one right answer in this particular debate, if you ask me.
        "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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        • #5
          Re: Faith & Politics

          Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
          Will Americans not vote for an atheist leader who CAN make positive changes for our nation?
          In a word: No. To most people in this country (or at least those who vote), Atheist's have absolutely no moral fiber at all. To them, it's all-encompassing that a politician hold at least SOME form of supernatural belief; otherwise, they can and will lie about anything.

          You're talking about a country where Atheists are considered less trustworthy than lawyers and used car salesmen.

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          • #6
            Re: Faith & Politics

            Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
            Is there anyone else who finds this appalling? It really disturbs me how religion is becoming so intertwined with politics. The idea that they need to be gaining votes by simply being religious as opposed to dealing with real issues such as health reform, immigration, economy, education, war, etc et al disgusts me. Am I alone in this?
            The entire system of campaigning we have is disturbing. The politicians are smart, though: they realize that, with a populace as willingly ignorant as ours, the religion aspect of their platform is going to be the most significant. The bonus here is that the fundamentalists won't vote for a completely nonreligious candidate, but most of the atheists don't really care about their public faiths.

            Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
            Would not this time be better used to discuss the issues?
            The issues have been discussed ad nauseam. You can find all of the information you're looking for if you look for it hard enough. Each candidate is doing his or her best to fall into the correct category, and beyond that, the religious vote is really what's going to sway people. It's the "beauty" of a bipartisan system.

            Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
            Will Americans not vote for an atheist leader who CAN make positive changes for our nation? Would they instead put their vote in for a slightly incompetent bafoon [sic] simply because he/she represents higher religious morality? Why is it neccessary [sic] we discuss a candidates [sic] faith at all?

            As someone who DOES believe in God it boggles my mind. I would rather elect a leader, not a preacher.
            As long as the "church" and "state" aspects of his politics are separated, I don't see how his theism should affect your vote. It's not necessary that we discuss a candidate's religion, but it's necessary that he or she does in order to grab that fundamentalist vote.

            Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
            Let's discuss this.
            Nota bene: he's +rep collecting. Don't help him. :D
            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
            I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
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            • #7
              Re: Faith & Politics

              Guys, im from Northern Ireland......politics and religion are the same thing here. Ask someone who they voted for and it usually stays "in tribe". But ask them about that parties policies.....they usually draw a blank. Its a "i better vote in case the other side does" mentality.

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              • #8
                Re: Faith & Politics

                Most people care about one or two issues above all others. That doesn't mean they don't have an opinion on the others, of course. Personally, I don't care if a politician is of a particular religion or not - doesn't matter to me at all. But I don't have a problem with people that make this their #1 reason to vote or not vote for someone. Its really no different than what the rest of us are doing. I like to think the issues that matter to me are the most important ones, but being honest with myself I realize that's probably not the case.
                Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                ...and other distractions of various levels.

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                • #9
                  Re: Faith & Politics

                  In an American context, the subject of politics and religion is so full of hipocracy, contradiction and irony that it quickly becomes painful. The fact is, there is very little separation of church and state in America, and while many claim to practice religious tolerance, the nation itself quite openly discourages tolerance of not just atheists but any belief system that does not accept the belief in a divine creator, or god. For proof of this, look no further than your nearest American currency, or the pledge of allegiance. As a secular humanist, I am deeply offended every time I hear an elected official tell me to pray, or mention god. It is, perhaps, one of my greatest dislikes of America.

                  I, for one, will be seeking out the candidate that downplays religion as any kind of qualifier for serving in office. I know that I am among an extreme minority of voters when I do this.

                  That said, the more rational answer to this thread is that religion does tend to be an indicator (however, by no means proof) of moral fiber, and to some degree a yardstick of moral compass. It aids the voter in relating to a person. I also believe that this logic also works in reverse, and can have dangerous consequences when people make assumptions based on religious belief or backing.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Faith & Politics

                    Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                    I also believe that this logic also works in reverse, and can have dangerous consequences when people make assumptions based on religious belief or backing.
                    You mean like how Mitt Romney's been catching a lot of flak for being Mormon? Yup, faith can backfire allright. Even if it's not part of your campaign.
                    "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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                    • #11
                      Re: Faith & Politics

                      Have a disagreement about churches policy = Unchristian/Apostate
                      Have a disagreement about the presidents policy = Unamerican/Traitor
                      Hmmmmmmm.....Could there be a connection?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Faith & Politics

                        Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
                        Will Americans not vote for an atheist leader who CAN make positive changes for our nation? Would they instead put their vote in for a slightly incompetent buffoon simply because he/she represents higher religious morality?
                        I think this is a major reason bush won both elections. Alot of voters I think were attracted to the fact he was against gay marriage, etc. and that he had a strong christian background.

                        I personally feel religion should be irrelevant as anyone can pervert their religion to do bad things but it seems that americans want to vote based on image rather than substance.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Faith & Politics

                          This program appears to be nothing more than a long political advertisement for the Democratic party. Great strategy to include all the democratic candidates so they "can't miss" with the effort. Unfortunately given their party platform "the dog won't hunt" with the majority of the faith based voting block. I am expecting they are trying to get a small percentage of fence sitters to look at them in a "new light". They all have great stories of faith to tell, infidelity, disease, minority determination.

                          Unfortunately with the current political atmosphere most of us vote for the candidate that we dislike the least rather than one that we really feel is fit for the job.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Faith & Politics

                            What's appalling to me that some of the most immoral people out there (politicians) think that people will believe anything they say about faith and religion.

                            I'm someone who is strong in my faith and not afraid to speak on it. Do I want a "preacher" as President? No. But it is nice to have someone with some moral fiber. Though some will disagree (and I'm not trying to stray), President Bush has never been afraid to stand up for what he believes in. He's mentioned God and scripture countless times at PCs and at smaller events with less press, even though the press has always ignored him or given him bad pub for it.

                            Do I think all democrats are immoral or all republicans are Christ-like? No. But I do appreciate what Bush does in that regard and as much as I would like a leader with moral character... I do not want a fake one.

                            Please guys, do not take my comment about Bush and turn this into a Bush debate. This is about faith and politics as a whole. I used an example.

                            ()

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                            • #15
                              Re: Faith & Politics

                              Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                              That said, the more rational answer to this thread is that religion does tend to be an indicator (however, by no means proof) of moral fiber, and to some degree a yardstick of moral compass.
                              It's not an actual indicator, it's only perceived (incorrectly) as an indicator.

                              Which population in the USA has a higher percentage of people that would label themselves religious: those inside prisons, or those outside them? I rest my case.
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