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  • Congress in Sync with us?

    If any of you have been paying attention to congress lately, you would of heard about their Immigration Plan that they have been trying to pass for quite some time now, though it seems it is dead at the moment. A lot of Politicians ( Mostly Democrats, but some Republicans as well ) have been giving the excuse that "The American People" want to have this bill pass, but I don't believe that at all. I don't think Amnesty should be giving to 12 Million people who broke the law, and a every single poll I have seen shows that well over 70% of the people polled don't like this bill either.

    What do you guys think about this bill, and would you like it to be passed? Or would you rather have a bill that has a fence built and much stronger security instead?

  • #2
    Re: Congress in Sync with us?

    Personally, I would like a bill that

    a) Gives border agents and towns the resources to fend off both fence jumpers and the more hardened criminals that make life on both sides of the fence more difficult.

    b) Expands and reforms the immigration system so that applicants don't have to wade through a mudslide of pointless and punitive bureaucracy, thus driving them away from the "correct" path to citizenship.

    c) Addresses the issue of exploitative labor practices and corporate reliance on cheap undocumented workers. Maybe you could set up a program by which companies pay illegals a fair wage, but in return a portion of that wage contributes to their application for American citizenship. Providing qualifying workers with a path to legal citizenship could be a tax write-off.

    The point is, it has to be comprehensive. I don't think we'll get any of that.
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    • #3
      Re: Congress in Sync with us?

      I would like a bill that

      1. Recognizes the fact that we (America) need these workers to a large extent.
      2. Recognizes the fact that many illegals are being taken advantage of and does something to correct this.
      3. Recognizes the fact that the situation we have now was caused just as much by the American people as it was the illegals. So to simply punish the illegals lets off half of the guilty party.
      4. Recognizes the fact that many illegals have American children and any new laws should protect the American children's rights.
      5. Recognizes the fact that you cannot seal this country off from illegal immigration without becoming a police state. Expecting a fence will stop it is absurd.
      6. Will explain, as honestly and accurately as possible, who will benefit and who will be harmed by "kicking them" out if that is the decision.
      7. Recognizes that a small(?) number of the illegals are illegal because of the bureaucratic mess and incompetent government workers.
      8. Recognizes that many of the illegals do not want to live hear. They only stay for prolonged periods because it is so difficult to come, do some work, then go back home. Many stay only because of the mess current immigration law is in.

      The proposed bill isn't that bad. I think the problem is that it is a compromise. Nobody "wins" outright. Current climate demands a clear cut winner and an outright looser. Because, you know, Republicans rule and Democrats drool. (Or whatever.)
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      • #4
        Re: Congress in Sync with us?

        It is an insult.

        It is an insult to the American people that their existing laws aren't being enforced by the government they the people hired to enforce the law.

        It is mutiny that these representitives are not acting on the behalf of their consituents.

        It is an insult to every legal immigrant who spent time and money filling out the forms, waiting in line for the cards and visae, and learning the English language to become Americans.

        It is treason that El Presidenté is attempting to forge a legacy of being the founding father of México Norte.


        We don't need a fence. We can defend the boarder using everything from a cowboy landowner with a shotgun to Apache helicopters. All we need to do is start pulverising invaders without exception, and they'll learn that the boarder is shut to those who haven't permission. If someone really wants a wall for some reason, let's look at tradition -- the Berlin wall seemed pretty effective -- and the new wave, Israel's autonomous invasion prevention drones. If you're going to do something, do it all the way, right?

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        • #5
          Re: Congress in Sync with us?

          Originally posted by MagnaCentipede View Post
          If you're going to do something, do it all the way, right?
          Wrong! Sorry, but it's reckless comments like this that give the amnesty lobby all the fuel they need to accomplish exactly the opposite of what you want.
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          • #6
            Re: Congress in Sync with us?

            I prefer the status quo to the bill.

            I'd like to see legal immigration increased at least doubled, with complete amnesty given to all illegal without criminal records.

            If you really want to end illegal immigration, increase legal immigration. If people smuggle drugs into prison, they'll figure out several million ways to get several million people across the border. Good luck.
            A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

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            • #7
              Re: Congress in Sync with us?

              1. Recognizes the fact that we (America) need these workers to a large extent.
              Not need, want. There is ample supply of humans in this nation who could take up the grunt jobs illegals are usually hired for. All you need to do is modify the minimum wage laws such that welfare recipients can be hired on at sub-minimum level. That would allow companies to afford to put to work people the Citizen is already paying to sustain the live of through taxation.

              2. Recognizes the fact that many illegals are being taken advantage of and does something to correct this.
              Deportation to Chiapas ensures they won't be taken advantage of by evil White people.

              3. Recognizes the fact that the situation we have now was caused just as much by the American people as it was the illegals. So to simply punish the illegals lets off half of the guilty party.
              The US is guity of not enforcing its immigration laws. Enforcing them is the first step to undoing that transgression.

              4. Recognizes the fact that many illegals have American children and any new laws should protect the American children's rights.
              Modify the born-here clause to require at least one parent be a United Statesican. Either that, or deport the illegals and burdon the orphanages with American children without legal guardians.

              5. Recognizes the fact that you cannot seal this country off from illegal immigration without becoming a police state. Expecting a fence will stop it is absurd.
              Property rights laws + Castle Doctrine (which is just a chunk of the Second Ad) + National Guard guarding the nation = Secured-enough boarder. Sure, a few will still worm their way in, but we need to eliminate all the casual traffic, and ensure that those that do get in ride a C130 and parachute over Oaxaca when they're caught.

              6. Will explain, as honestly and accurately as possible, who will benefit and who will be harmed by "kicking them" out if that is the decision.
              The United States will benefit from population growth reductions, particularly the unaccounted heads. The Mexican people will benefit from not losing all these honest labourers and thus be encouraged to help grow their nation rather than abandon it. Domestic-market product packaging will benefit because there won't be any compelling reason to print foreign messages on them.

              7. Recognizes that a small(?) number of the illegals are illegal because of the bureaucratic mess and incompetent government workers.
              A law recognizing that fact is the application of another layer of red tape.

              8. Recognizes that many of the illegals do not want to live hear. They only stay for prolonged periods because it is so difficult to come, do some work, then go back home. Many stay only because of the mess current immigration law is in.
              What do you want a law to do about that? Aside from stating "if they want to leave, let 'em," I don't see how it's somehow the US's fault they invade and then get "stuck."

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              • #8
                Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                This bill is complete garbage. It's so funny how people have no problem with the law being broken when it's in their own interest. They are called illegal for a reason.

                Illegal.

                ()

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                • #9
                  Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                  I don't one one single bill with a million unrelated things crammed into it. I want one subject per bill, so each can be judged on its own merits, and a bill can be quickly and easily understood.

                  (http://DownsizeDC.org is working on preparing just such a rule to introduce to Congress. Not that they'll accept such restraints easily, but constant hammering may get them to pass it.)
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                    Originally posted by Chewy View Post
                    This bill is complete garbage. It's so funny how people have no problem with the law being broken when it's in their own interest. They are called illegal for a reason.

                    Illegal.
                    Yep. Shame on all those American Revolutionaries for ignoring British law!
                    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                    • #11
                      Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                      The main thing that I want to see is a requirement that any new visa (guest worker visa, for example) must be applied for from outside our country. I don't think an amnesty is fair to the millions of people that are waiting, and have been waiting for years and years, in their own country to immigrate here legally. I just don't think it's a good idea for immigrants to start their "path to citizenship" by ignoring our laws and committing federal crimes. Make them enter legally if they want to live here without being bothered by La Migra. Are all 20 million illegal aliens going to leave the USA to apply for this new visa? No, especially not folks that already have criminal records, but that'll allow our Immigration Officers to concentrate on a much smaller illegal population. It also eliminates the politically correct discouragement for enforcing our immigration laws. If anyone that wants a work visa can easily get one if they apply from their native country, then there is very little argument against letting federal agents go after any illegal aliens that remain inside the USA.
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                      • #12
                        Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                        I am all for the get rid of the illegal immigrants policy but I think it has gotten to the point where we are going to have to do something with the workers here, like the amnesty plan, to get the problem fixed.

                        If you are a legal immigrant, my hat is off to you and I wish you the best this country has to offer. But if you are illegal, then I don't hate you or think you are a bad person, but I don't think that you belong here. The best way to get rid of illegal immigration is to:
                        1) Levy heavy fines against the companies that utilize illegal immigrants.
                        2) Police the borders and anyone caught gets documented and sent right back. Get caught again and go to guatanamo or some really bad place where you don't want to get caught a third time.

                        I know many people come here illegally because they are fleeing disasters, or totalitarian regimes, or genocide, etc. But many come here just to be leeches and collect money and pay zero taxes. And it isn't helping that many of the kids of illegal immigrants are increasingly joining gangs and making it worse in the American cities. I know the cities aren't exactly Disneyland but we don't aneed anyone to be adding fuel to the fire. And don't think I'm saying that all the kids of the illegal immigrants are bad or in gangs.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                          For reference, I waited 11 months in my own country, while my spouse, a U.S. citizen had to work on this side to get me in. I understand the problem, and I am usually pretty socially liberal, but I am waaaay against amnesty.

                          As Cing said, why should these people get a free ride when those of us who did this legitimately, had to go through a massive ordeal to get our green card?
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                          • #14
                            Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                            The logistics alone of tracking down 20 million immigrants would inflict a staggering cost on the economy. Then you'd have to add to that the continuing expense of keeping them out. On top of all that the economy would be down 20 million workers.

                            We've got a good thing going. Despite the influx of illegals from Mexico our unemployment rate has remained amazingly low because we need more labor. We specifically need cheap labor and Mexico is probably the best place to get it. Where else are we going to get that much cheap labor, China? I'm sure 20 million legal Communist Chinese immigrants is going to turn out so much better then illegal Mexicans. Besides, in the long run we can use immigrants to offset our aging workforce, which is a storm most industrial nations are going to have to simply ride out.

                            In my opinion we should just let law enforcement weed out the bad apples and keep the rest. If an illegal pays taxes, holds a job, and doesn't commit crimes I don't see any reason to waste my taxes kicking and keeping him out.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Congress in Sync with us?

                              But in getting here, every single one of them committed a crime. In my opinion this is just a new slave class and only works to hurt those who would earn minimum wage. We just raised minimum wage to help the poor, now we are going to put them out of work because we found someone cheaper? Nice one, two punch to the poor in the US.

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