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  • Barry Bonds

    So he is one HR away from tieing and then beating Hank Aaron's record of 755 HRs in a career. He used steriods everyone knows it and he knows it. Should he be entered into the record books and be allowed to hold that record with no added "notes" to it.

    I personally dont think he should be allowed to hold the record. You can look at his baseball cards and the off season that he went from teh pirates to the giants he got HUGE.

    I don't doubt he has talent but he cheated to get that record. I would much rather see "the kid" get the record but he was injured to much. A-rod might be able to get it, he is at 600+ now and has a few more years left.
    58
    Allow him to have the record with no "notes"
    17.24%
    10
    Note it up...he cheated
    51.72%
    30
    Dont care, baseball is boring
    31.03%
    18
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

  • #2
    Re: Barry Bonds

    What about the fact that many pitchers take steroids. If hitters don't take them how are they going to keep up? Also baseball would be even more boring if there weren't guys taking steroids so they can hit homeruns. Homeruns make the game much more exciting.

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    • #3
      Re: Barry Bonds

      As little as I care about baseball:

      Is taking steroids against MLB rules and guidelines? And can they prove he's been using? If so, he's cheating. It's no different than using a corked bat or putting glue onto the hands of a wide receiver. You don't reward people who break the rules and you don't put their name into your hall-of-fame.

      If there are no rules against steroid abuse, then there's no issue.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Barry Bonds

        Originally posted by TheFeniX View Post
        As little as I care about baseball:

        Is taking steroids against MLB rules and guidelines? And can they prove he's been using? If so, he's cheating. It's no different than using a corked bat or putting glue onto the hands of a wide receiver. You don't reward people who break the rules and you don't put their name into your hall-of-fame.

        If there are no rules against steroid abuse, then there's no issue.
        Exactly.

        Couple that with the fact that steroids don't give you any skills, and you've got a non-issue here. Bonds is a hitter, plain and simple. Whether or not his muscles were gained with an hour a day of weight training and steroids, or 5 hours a day of weight training with no steroids, matters not to me.
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        • #5
          Re: Barry Bonds

          Originally posted by Trooper View Post
          Hank Aaron.
          Did he use steroids?
          -F- Darksteel

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          • #6
            Re: Barry Bonds

            Do his stats pre-steroid use suggest he would ever be in the running for the record?

            I've heard they don't but I'm not a baseball fanatic. I'm just not a big fan of the "steroids don't give you skills" argument. If skill alone was the only deciding factor we'd see teams of elderly men who honed their skill for decades playing the game but elderly men don't have the strength and speed to knock 90 mile per hour fastballs over the fence or the stamina to play inning after inning.

            When I watch any sport I'm there to watch an art. I want to see players that have honed themselves to perfection in pursuit of that art. I want to pass that enjoyment down to my children one day because it also comes with a message that hard work and competition brings success. I don't want to see players crafted by chemists in laboratory, what message does that send? That you can practice every day but if you want to be a champion you should take illegal substances and sacrifice your long term health?

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            • #7
              Re: Barry Bonds

              Originally posted by TheFeniX View Post

              If there are no rules against steroid abuse, then there's no issue.
              There are rules against steroid use but there has never been any proof he actually cheated.


              I guess some of you are forgetting we are innocent until proven guilty in the U.S.A. You guys and the rest of the public are judging him without any proof of him actually using. He has passed every steroid test ever given to him leaving only speculation by the public and accusations by his peers. He deserves his record and recognition based on this alone. Had there been absolute proof of his steroids yes then I say, yes, he does not deserve the record and the recognition. Had he failed even one test and the record still given to him then this thread would be worth something but he didn't.

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              • #8
                Re: Barry Bonds

                Originally posted by D0ubl3Hel1x View Post
                I guess some of you are forgetting we are innocent until proven guilty in the U.S.A. You guys and the rest of the public are judging him without any proof of him actually using.
                I'm not a huge baseball fan, but I understand the upset amongst the fans. Let's be honest, "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to a court of law, not public opinion or the judgements passed by private institutions over the people they employ. I think the controversy has probably done more for MLB than anything, so it's likely he'll get his entrance into the hall of fame. Personally, if I were a fan of baseball, I would be pissed.
                | | |

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                • #9
                  Re: Barry Bonds

                  Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
                  I'm not a huge baseball fan, but I understand the upset amongst the fans. Let's be honest, "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to a court of law, not public opinion or the judgements passed by private institutions over the people they employ. I think the controversy has probably done more for MLB than anything, so it's likely he'll get his entrance into the hall of fame. Personally, if I were a fan of baseball, I would be pissed.
                  I'm not a baseball fan either. The only reason I am somewhat up to date on the issue is because Football season is around the corner and I'm watching more Sportscenter than normal. I'm sure there are a lot of pissed Baseball fans because he is going to break the record and has a secure spot in the Hall of Fame but his steroid use is only speculation and people are treating him like he is scum of the earth. If he were denied the record just from allegations the whole induction process would have to be re-evaluated across all of sports. Just yesterday Michael Irvin was inducted into the Pro Footbal Hall of Fame and he has had a problem with Cocaine abuse during and after his career.

                  We also have to look at Alex Rodriguez in the homerun race. He is the youngest player to ever reach 500 career homeruns at thirty-two years of age. In Baseball's state it's almost safe to assume when he draws closer to whatever record Bonds sets there will be steroid/stimulant speculation as well. The controversy surrounding Baseball right now has shed some light on the sport and may have drawn in new fans or at the very least more media attention but I think in the long run it will have a datrimental effect leaving a secure spot for any accomplishing Baseball player to be open for steroid/stimlant allegations.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Barry Bonds

                    I wonder how well babe Ruth would fare under today's standards? In today's world he would probably be run out of baseball by relentless media attacks on him regarding his drinking, smoking and womanizing.

                    If we are to condemn Barry Bonds because he "might" have taken steroids and it isn't fair to allow him to break records from the past, then maybe we should revisit whether Babe Ruth deserves his reputation as the greatest.

                    Personally I think Barry Bonds deserves his record, he hit em all out and that is a fact. The rest is speculation.

                    Not to discredit Hank Aaron, but I believe that Babe Ruth was the greatest. Take a look at his bio and see what he did - the man was a phenomenon. Imagine what he could do today with modern training and the modern medical treatments (not steroids) that we have today.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Barry Bonds

                      Not to discredit Hank Aaron,
                      If you think Barry Bonds is experiencing unfair treatment or scrutiny go back and see what Hank Aaron had to endure and try to deal with while he was breaking Babe Ruth's record.

                      Oh and this whole statement about Bonds being the best ever is ridicules. No one was saying Bonds could be the best ever before 2001. Jeez do you think it might have been the steroids that has helped him attain this level at such an old age for a baseball player. Also it isn't speculation that Barry Bonds took steroids it is fact read the grand jury testimonies.

                      Barry Bonds breaking Hank Aarons record in and in its self discredits Hammerin Hank
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: Barry Bonds

                        Originally posted by Judge_Leo View Post
                        I wonder how well babe Ruth would fare under today's standards? In today's world he would probably be run out of baseball by relentless media attacks on him regarding his drinking, smoking and womanizing.

                        If we are to condemn Barry Bonds because he "might" have taken steroids and it isn't fair to allow him to break records from the past, then maybe we should revisit whether Babe Ruth deserves his reputation as the greatest.

                        Personally I think Barry Bonds deserves his record, he hit em all out and that is a fact. The rest is speculation.

                        Not to discredit Hank Aaron, but I believe that Babe Ruth was the greatest. Take a look at his bio and see what he did - the man was a phenomenon. Imagine what he could do today with modern training and the modern medical treatments (not steroids) that we have today.

                        Yep, the media is on your case for weeks if you even curse or show the Bird to a crowd... But he's Babe ruth, media will give him the special treatment like some of these super athletes now do...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Barry Bonds

                          Steriods may not give you skills, but home runs aren't about skills. Perhaps better stated, skill is a minimum factor.

                          Any of us could hit a popup in a major league ballpark. I couldn't put it out without some serious bulking up. Similarly, and of us could tackle a grown man; the effectiveness of it (while there *IS* skill involved) hinges greatly on being stronger than the other guy.

                          Skill plays its part, but skill in the absence of power means little. Power CAN be worked like a skill, but it can also be bought in pill form.

                          I'd like to see Griffey Jr. go on a tear and take the record, personally. Junior has over 600 HRs and nothing but respect around him. In the same vein, A-Rod has a worthwhile chance to beat the record too, with no cloud hanging over his number.

                          *EDIT: Just saw this interesting read while researching the numbers for this post
                          [volun2]
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                          • #14
                            Re: Barry Bonds

                            I voted for 'no notes.' Our 'drug-free' society needs to come to grips with the fact that if you start calling everything a drug, we're all on drugs. Some athletes are also bodybuilders, and most bodybuilders take drugs. In the future, you'll start seeing certain athletes label themselves 'organic.'

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                            • #15
                              Re: Barry Bonds

                              Id like to see an "open" or "unlimited" class of athlete. A class that would have no limits on performance enhancers or other medical augmentations.
                              As long as its done in the open


                              Sarcoma (who thinks Bonds is a cheater)
                              Sarcoma.

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