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  • China bans reincarnation without government permission.

    I got a REALLY good laugh out of this article. I'm curious what they'll actually do for enforcement. :)
    In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation." ...

    At 72, the Dalai Lama, who has lived in India since 1959, is beginning to plan his succession, saying that he refuses to be reborn in Tibet so long as it's under Chinese control. Assuming he's able to master the feat of controlling his rebirth, as Dalai Lamas supposedly have for the last 600 years, the situation is shaping up in which there could be two Dalai Lamas: one picked by the Chinese government, the other by Buddhist monks.

    Read full article here
    Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

  • #2
    Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

    Originally posted by Apophis View Post
    I'm curious what they'll actually do for enforcement. :)
    They'll give the accused a speedy trial, take the convicted to the yard outside the courthouse, and shoot them in the head, dude.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

      While at first sight it is very funny, it is more tragic in the end. There have been two Lama's for a long time, one under Chinese "control" (Panshen-Lama), living in Tibet I suppose, and the one most people know (Dalai-Lama), that lives in Dharamsalaa, an area given to the Tibetans by India.

      The Dalai Lama refuge has been a huge impediment in Chinese efforts to crush Tibet's sovereignty, and the Tibetan identity. In the end it is probably a pathetic attempt by the Chinese to designate the Dalai-Lama, as I'm sure the people who risk their lives into crossing the border to Nepal from Tibet aren't going to be fooled by some megalomanic writings.

      Including a video everyone should see imo. It's short, and immeasurably sad. Perhaps the video answers your curiousity about enforcement.
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

        The current Panchen Lama is a fake and was set up by the Chinese government after they kidnapped and possibly killed the real Panchen Lama and his family. The Panchen Lama is supposed to find the reincarnated Dali Lama, so there are questions on how the next Dali Lama will be found since noone has seen the real Panchen Lama in some time.

        The Dali Lama promises to reincarnate in a democratic country so f*** the Chinese.

        CHINA=EVIL

        We have sold out to them like 25 cent whores for some cheap tupperware.


        Suspicions that the Panchen Lama had been kidnapped by Chinese authorities were confirmed in 1996, when the Chinese government admitted to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child that it held the boy and his family in "protective custody."

        Since then, there have been conflicting reports about the whereabouts of Gedhun Choekyi Nyima and his parents, Dechen Choedron and Konchog Phuntsok. In 1999, rumors that the then-10-year-old boy had died in a prison in the western province of Gansu prompted Beijing to report that he was 'unharmed' and living with his family. Today, there are rumors that he is being kept in Beijing. There is concern that the Panchen Lama is being indoctrinated by Chinese officials, who will use him to support their policies in Tibet.

        The Panchen Lama has now been missing for 12 years. The only known photo of him was taken in 1995 at the age of six. If still alive, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima will turn 18 years old on April 25, 2007. On this birthday, he will no longer be considered as a child under Chinese or international law. He should presumably have the right to speak on his own behalf.

        China's Attempts to Control Tibetan Religion

        "According to Tibetan tradition, the confirmation of either the Dalai or the Panchen must be mutually recognized," the 10th Panchen Lama was quoted as saying by the official Chinese press.

        Intent on curbing the influence of the Dalai Lama in Tibet and attempting to establish their pre-eminence in all "internal affairs," political or otherwise, in November 1995 the atheistic Chinese government nominated and selected a different boy and proclaimed him to be the 11th Panchen Lama. China's chosen boy is overwhelmingly rejected by the Tibetan people. China increasingly uses this boy as a mouthpiece for its calculated policies in Tibet. Both teenagers are victims in China's plan to undermine and control the Tibetan people, religion and culture.

        The Dalai Lama has said that he regards China's kidnapping of the Panchen Lama in 1995 as a dress rehearsal for what happens after he dies. However, the Dalai Lama has repeatedly said that he will be reincarnated in a democratic country. "I have made clear that the next Dalai Lama will be born in a free country. I think the Tibetans will accept that - they won't accept a boy chosen by the Chinese," the Dalai Lama said in 2003.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

          When it comes to the suppression and maltreatment of indigenous people, the Chinese government's got nothing on the US.
          A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

          "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

            Originally posted by leejo View Post
            They'll give the accused a speedy trial, take the convicted to the yard outside the courthouse, and shoot them in the head, dude.
            Good point: this is a free ticket for murder.
            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
            I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
            Feel free to quote me. ~

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

              Originally posted by Hambergler View Post

              CHINA=EVIL
              QFT.
              Life in Bogota is a lot like a big box of Colombian chocolates. You never know when you'll get blown up by the FARC.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

                I can recommend an excellent biography by Palden Gyatso. He was a young monk in Tibet when the Chinese invaded. He was then a prisoner for 33 years, before he escaped, much like the people in the video tried. An amazing story of oppression, but also of human endurance. That this man can still smile is a miracle. This book touched me very deeply, and I promise it will touch anyone else that reads it.

                Oh I'll stop advertising, I am ORDERING all of you to read it :).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

                  Originally posted by xTYBALTx View Post
                  When it comes to the suppression and maltreatment of indigenous people, the Chinese government's got nothing on the US.
                  Hmm...I think this qualifies as particularly impressive suppression and maltreatment. Sure there are no armed conflicts...yet. Once he dies, things are only going to disintegrate farther. They didn't build that railway straight into Tibet for purely propaganda reasons, they are prepping for any resistance they may come across at his death. This will really strain China-India relations as well. It could put that whole section of the world on edge...right between Burma (Myanmar) and Pakistan. It would really be nice to keep that area peaceful...

                  But yeah, we Americans really do have a hell of a history with the Native Americans.

                  -Zephyr
                  You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

                  You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

                  Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

                  Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

                  We are no clan.
                  We are not a single game.
                  We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
                  We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

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                  • #10
                    Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

                    Charlie Stross has an interesting view point on this: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...reporting.html

                    While at first glance this sounds like an amusing novelty item, and at second glance seems like an amusing novelty item designed to ding the bell of outrage against those nasty Communist occupiers of wonderful, idyllic, pre-invasion Tibet (see also: theocracy, mediaeval), there's a much less palatable subtext running through this article: an unthinking and implicit endorsement of really silly superstitious beliefs and the right of those who hold them to use them to manipulate political opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

                      Originally posted by marstein View Post
                      Charlie Stross has an interesting view point on this: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...reporting.html
                      It is ironic that a science fiction writer would say that. Most people believe in the possibility of there being life forms on other planets, despite any supporting evidence. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. Charlie Stross makes a living on this assumption or sub-text.

                      Science is a great study of nature, but it is impossible to define the human experience empirically.

                      I have become and admirer of the Dali Lama after reading his book:
                      The Universe in a Single Atom: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality

                      http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Singl.../dp/076792066X

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

                        Originally posted by marstein View Post
                        Charlie Stross has an interesting view point on this: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...reporting.html
                        I actually find this article to be incredibly shortsighted. As I've read a first hand account (cfr. teh autobiography I mentioned) of someone living in this rather peaceful society. Sure they were living in a feudal society, doing things the way they did for a thousand years perhaps. Then suddenly the Chinese decide they are wrong and in need of "help" which includes holding monks in captivity with metal shackles on for 30 some years (and counting). In that light the article is offensive. Why doesn't he recognize a sovereign nation's right to organize itself, an to uphold their own world-view, just like the Chinese do.


                        On the topic of reincarnation then, he shows ignorance, and a total lack of nuance. I have stayed three days in a Buddhist monastery in Thailand once. It was founded by a famous monk, who had become known among others for the interpretation that reincarnation is NOT to be understood as being reborn after death. Instead it is a metaphor, much like heaven, urging you to act in responsible way now, rather then later. All religions use these metaphors as a tool to make unschooled people understand theological/philosophical ideas.

                        In the case of the Lama's, it is clearly taken literally, but looked at with some realism, it is obvious that the reincarnation process for Lama's is nothing more then political system to designate the new King. And may I say a better way then Belgium has because our next king, is his kin, and our next one is VERY dumb.

                        To suggest that the Chinese are taking action against "superstition" shows a self-centred world-view. If the Chinese were really acting against superstition, they would ban reincarnating with or without Chinese permission wouldn't they?
                        They could just outlaw Buddhism all together. But then they have been trying that for so long. Now they are trying to control the Tibetan religion, while at the same time flooding the region with Chinese immigrants.
                        The fact that the Chinese have built a huge raid-road to one of the most barren and economically worthless regions in the world, solely for the purpose of smothering it's culture shows the scare lengths to which they will go.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: China bans reincarnation without government permission.

                          Originally posted by xTYBALTx View Post
                          When it comes to the suppression and maltreatment of indigenous people, the Chinese government's got nothing on the US.
                          Damn right! We're #1

                          USA! USA! USA!

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