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Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

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  • Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

    You can now tell the GOP what to do! There is no party affiliation requirement to contribute. GOP Party Platform Input For you Independants/Libertarians out there here is your chance to tell them why you don't vote Republican. For the rest of you I'm sure you'll be creative.

    I suggest we all tell them about The Fair Tax. W is considering it as this bill gains momentum. I honestly believe this is a truly non-partisan issue that affects us all.


    The federal income tax is unfair, complex, and riddled with loopholes. Even worse, it
    punishes work, savings, investment, and productivity. It contributes to high interest rates,
    and a lack of savings among the American people. But now, fundamental tax reform is
    seriously being discussed in Washington. The most innovative proposal is HR 25/
    S 1493, called the FairTax Act. The FairTax is revenue-neutral legislation, repealing and
    replacing the following with a national retail sales tax:
    The individual income tax (including capital gains and alternative
    minimum taxes)
    The estate and gift tax
    The corporate income tax
    All payroll taxes including the Social Security, Medicare, and selfemployment
    taxes
    This single-rate sales tax is calculated to raise the same amount of money
    currently raised by the current system (revenue neutral); this proposal does not seek to
    raise or lower taxes. But what it does do is seek to provide the least expensive, least
    intrusive, most efficient way of raising the same amount of money.
    New to TG?

  • #2
    Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

    Can anyone show me to some criticism of the Fair Tax, preferably from some economics/ business expert. There must be disadvantages to it, so what are they? It seems fair, cheap and simple to me, but it must be too good to be true.
    Wintermute

    Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

      I've often thought the same thing! What's the "con" argument?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

        Originally posted by USN_Squid
        W is considering it as this bill gains momentum.
        I wish I weren't so cynical because I've enjoyed the Fair Tax concept ever since I first saw it mentioned in the TG forums. Unfortunately, I can only think that any presidential candidate would "consider" anything in an election year.

        As for the disadvantages, I've never found any particular research against it, but I do know this: Americans are geniuses at finding self-exculpary loopholes. If implemented in its entirety, it will still be years before the largest loopholes are closed, and probably decades until the government is making whatever the projected revenue is. I wonder how many transactions can be disguised as "gifts" instead of "sales"? Only new goods are taxed, so is there a sneaky way to get all your stuff declared "used" before you sell it?

        I used to think that our legal system was too complicated, and ditto for our taxes, and that trials and taxes would be easier if the the laws were just clear, simple, and black and white. I still think we overcomplicate things, but our national history and national character as Americans REQUIRE us to have the most nitpicky laws and taxes conceivable. We're rebels. We LIKE to be rebels. We want to flout laws and escape persecution just like our forbears - and so we take pleasure in getting away with speeding and getting every last little deduction on our taxes. Some people actually take pride in getting away with cheating the taxes, by stretching definitions and claiming their weekend Lexus is a "business vehicle" and in general hiding their money wherever possible. This is really in the finest tradition of our Founding Fathers, who incidentally declared income tax illegal in the original Constitution. But it also means that at least SOME of the complexity of our tax codes is to close those loopholes and make sure that all people are paying "their fair share". The concept of Fair Tax is, indeed, simple. But if it's going to work on Americans it's going to have to be just as complicated in its exhaustive definitions and special cases as anything the IRS has put out in the last 20 years.

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        • #5
          Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

          One disadvantage? Democrats can't stick it to the rich anymore...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

            Originally posted by Wintermute
            Can anyone show me to some criticism of the Fair Tax, preferably from some economics/ business expert. There must be disadvantages to it, so what are they? It seems fair, cheap and simple to me, but it must be too good to be true.
            I know of one economics expert to be all for it and that's Al Greenspan...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

              Originally posted by Geisha
              Only new goods are taxed, so is there a sneaky way to get all your stuff declared "used" before you sell it?
              Simple. Taxable goods aren't "used" until they've been taxed at least once.

              Make the actual laws that implement the Fair Tax as complicated as need be to keep the lawyers and accountants from finding loopholes, but make the premise, compliance and enforcement simple... I see no reason to saddle 90% of the taxpayers with complicated tax returns just because 10% try to find loopholes.

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              • #8
                Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                Complicated laws keep lawyers and accountants in business.

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                • #9
                  Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                  Originally posted by leejo
                  Complicated laws keep lawyers and accountants in business.
                  Yeah, but let the private sharks fight with the government sharks and keep the regular people out of it... Make the laws even more complicated if that's what it takes to keep compliance with the law simple.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                    Gosh I don't see it that way at all. A sales tax is pretty simple and I don't have to hire an accountant to buy groceries, but I might want one to file my income tax returns.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                      Originally posted by Wintermute
                      Can anyone show me to some criticism of the Fair Tax, preferably from some economics/ business expert. There must be disadvantages to it, so what are they? It seems fair, cheap and simple to me, but it must be too good to be true.
                      To be honest I have not looked for the downside, and on the surface it's hard to see any. On their website they have links to research papers in which they have studied the impact it would have on the different aspects of our economy and industries. I picked out my area of interest and selfishly declared it would have a positive impact on me so I'm for it!

                      Tax accountants and Tax Attorneys will obviously fight this one to the death. After reading some of the comments above I'm not convinced that they should, however. It makes sense that this would take a long time (read: lawsuits, legislation, etc.) to implement. It could be a boom for CPAs and Attorneys.
                      New to TG?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                        Originally posted by leejo
                        Gosh I don't see it that way at all. A sales tax is pretty simple and I don't have to hire an accountant to buy groceries, but I might want one to file my income tax returns.
                        Exactly. So make the national sales tax simple: the premise is that everyone in the country pays 10% (or whatever number they come up with) sales tax on all taxable goods. Businesses and wealthy individuals are probably going to look for loopholes to get out of paying this tax, though. Make the laws as complicated as necessary to confound these "loopholers" while keeping it easy for your average taxpayer to just pay the 10% without having to worry about complicated tax returns...

                        Make compliance with the law simple and "loopholing" a pain in the butt.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                          Originally posted by CingularDuality
                          Exactly. So make the national sales tax simple: the premise is that everyone in the country pays 10% (or whatever number they come up with) sales tax on all taxable goods. Businesses and wealthy individuals are probably going to look for loopholes to get out of paying this tax, though. Make the laws as complicated as necessary to confound these "loopholers" while keeping it easy for your average taxpayer to just pay the 10% without having to worry about complicated tax returns...

                          Make compliance with the law simple and "loopholing" a pain in the butt.
                          Loopholing is only a pain in the butt the first time. Once you've found it, you can go through it as often as time allows.
                          [volun2]
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                          Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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                          • #14
                            Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                            Originally posted by Pokerface
                            Loopholing is only a pain in the butt the first time. Once you've found it, you can go through it as often as time allows.
                            So you amend the law as many times as it takes to complicate things for the loopholers and simplify things for the regular Joe...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Wanna tell Republicans where to go?

                              I think it's better to fine or imprison people who break a simple law.

                              Why replace the tax-code tome with another tax-code tome that no-one understands and everyone hates?

                              Anyhoo. We won't decide this matter and nothing will happen for a long time anyway.

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