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Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

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  • Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

    Do retail stores have a right to ask for your receipt and look through your bag? And does it create a culture of obedience?

    The motive of the retail store is to prevent loss, why would someone object knowing that the stores only interest is to help out their bottom line?

    Do citizens have to show their drivers licenses to a PO if they are not driving a vehicle?

    http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/...-circuit-city/

  • #2
    Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

    Circuit City does not employ Loss Prevention people who examine receipts at the door. Best Buy does but does not check every bag, only large items such as TV's, and Computers. This smells fishy to me.

    Lucky Shot
    Last edited by Lucky Shot; 09-02-2007, 07:19 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

      Anyone else have a 50/50 chance of setting off the alarm at the door at Best Buy? I swear it happens constantly. I could buy a frickin book and that alarm would wait in barely constrained anticipation for me to walk past it before alerting the entire store to my presence. They need to recalibrate their stuff or something.

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      • #4
        Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

        When I was a kid I worked at Tower records in uptown Manhattan. Our understanding was that nobody but a cop has the right to detain someone. We had security asking people for receipts, etc., but everyone knew that if someone set off the alarm they could still tell the guard to screw himself and walk right past him.

        Our hero could have told "Joe" to jump in a lake. If Joe tried to prevent him physically from entering the car, Joe broke the law. If our hero said "sorry officer I don't have my license on me because I'm not driving" we might have had a different ending here, assuming all happened as we are told. Give a cop a smartass (but legal) answer and you might get a smartass (but legal) response.

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        • #5
          Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

          I ALWAYS ignore anyone that asks to look at my receipt and my purchases as I'm walking out of a store. I've been physically stopped by one employee and if the store manager hadn't apologized and convinced me that the untrained employee was going to get an ass chewing, I would've pressed charges.

          This police officer is in some deep doodoo. Abusing your authority under color of law is a serious offense, and arresting somebody (that called the police for help) on a trumped up charge in a case like this, makes it easy to prove IF the officer's story is the same as in this blog.

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          • #6
            Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

            I used to work the front door at Best Buy (worst job ever) and often had to ask for reciepts. We were usually double checking our minimum wage earning tennager cashiers rather than implicitly accusing customers of stealing. You wouldn't believe how many times I saw a computer scanned twice and a credit card rung without the customer or cashier noticing. On the flip side, there were quite a few times when an item hadn't been rung out properly and would have been taken as a loss.

            Although I have some sympathy with that guy (he shouldn't have been detained if he wasn't actually observed concealing and stealing property), I also suspect that there is more to the story than he is letting on. Given the information he provided, it sounds like the store employees and the police officer involved were in the wrong in this case but I imagine he is presenting himself in the most positive light possible.

            When we had someone refuse a reciept check, we would usually ask them to not return to the store. Like it or not, retailers are generally considered to be private property and they do have every right to see your proof of purchase before you leave with merchendise. We never actually detained anyone unless whe had video evidence of a crime taking place.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

              Originally posted by secret.squirrul View Post
              Anyone else have a 50/50 chance of setting off the alarm at the door at Best Buy? I swear it happens constantly. I could buy a frickin book and that alarm would wait in barely constrained anticipation for me to walk past it before alerting the entire store to my presence. They need to recalibrate their stuff or something.
              That also boils down to underpaid teenagers who don't care to deactivate the sensor tags properly or faulty desensitizers at the registers that the company is too cheap to fix.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                Originally posted by Buckets View Post
                Like it or not, retailers are generally considered to be private property and they do have every right to see your proof of purchase before you leave with merchendise.
                They absolutely do not! That is called an unlawful search and seizure, a false arrest. Retailers may protect their property as they like, but they may not invade on other people's constitutional rights. They may ask someone to leave their property and they may ask them not to ever come back, but they may not require the search of anyone's bags or receipts. Consent is the key to keeping retail employees out of trouble!

                Many states allow for store employees to arrest thieves (shoplifters). If probable cause has been established, THEN the thief can be detained (if you're not free to leave, then you are under arrest) and the bag searched without consent. Most chain stores have loss prevention specialists and trained management which are the only employees allowed by policy to arrest (detain) people.

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                • #9
                  Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                  What's the big deal with voluntarily letting them check your receipt? It takes like 2 seconds. Sheesh. This guy sounds like a jerk, whether legally allowed to refuse a check. I'm legally allowed to sneeze on your food if it happens to be in front of me. I'm not going to do it just because I'm legally allowed to and it's easier than grabbing a Kleenex.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                    They can take my bag from my cold, dead hands!
                    A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                    "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

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                    • #11
                      Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                      Originally posted by sordavie View Post
                      What's the big deal with voluntarily letting them check your receipt? It takes like 2 seconds. Sheesh.
                      The deal is that if everyone fails to exercise their rights, it soon becomes assumed that that right doesn't exist. As in this situation where the guy was falsely arrested by two store employees, and then arrested by a police officer (who failed to arrest the store employees) on a dubious charge. And we even see people here in our own community that are ignorant of people's rights and have been in the same position as those store employees.

                      Somebody has to stand up for their rights, or those rights will cease to exist.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                        Why is that so? I don't see why anyone should think that if people don't exercise their right to x, then it is presumed that people don't have a right to x. That's just fallacious reasoning.

                        All sorts of people are ignorant of their legal rights. That's why lawyers make lots of money in our society. So what? You know you don't have to allow them to check your receipts. Good for you. That means what? That you have to, on every occasion, exercise that right or else you lose it? How silly.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                          Originally posted by sordavie View Post
                          Why is that so? I don't see why anyone should think that if people don't exercise their right to x, then it is presumed that people don't have a right to x. That's just fallacious reasoning.
                          Not when history has shown that rights eroded don't slowly build back up over time. I'd like it if you could give me an example to the contrary.

                          All sorts of people are ignorant of their legal rights. That's why lawyers make lots of money in our society. So what? You know you don't have to allow them to check your receipts. Good for you. That means what? That you have to, on every occasion, exercise that right or else you lose it? How silly.
                          If nobody exercises it, you lose it. Have I said or implied that EVERYONE needs to exercise their rights and not consent to a search of their bags on the way out of a store EVERY time? I have not. But this whole situation is a great example of someone's rights being violated. If you think his rights were violated due to maliciousness instead of ignorance of those rights, then I apologize. I thought it was pretty clear (combined with comments made here) that it was ignorance, which would prove my point.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                            This is really nore of a "consumer choice" thing than a legal rights thing.

                            Business owners can treat customers however they want (within reason). If customers don't like this treatment they can shop someplace else.

                            Nobody has to shop there. I don't. I don't like the atmosphere in Circuit City or Best Buy. Personally I like Sears and New Egg for my home techno gadget shopping.

                            And the business owner rights to detain people vary by state and even city. A friend of mine was a manager of a grocery store. If somebody stole beer or cigarettes he could physically detain them until the police arrived. Especially if they looked under age. For other things they could but generally didn't for reasons I don't know.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                            • #15
                              Re: Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt

                              I let the stores check my sack because, having worked in record stores when I was a kid, I know that shrinkage isn't just a funny Seinfeld episode. I also know that the people at the door aren't making jack diddly and I don't feel like making their lives any more miserable. As S-diddy said, it takes like 2 seconds. I know what my rights are but I choose not to dig my heels in on this point. It's a private interaction, and I choose to be polite as long as they choose to be polite. If some schmoe tries to block me from getting in my car because he thinks I may have the latest Justin Timberlake CD stuffed in my pants, he might get hurt.

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