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  • Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

    OK, lets see how this goes... don't worry, if it goes downhill to fast then I'll ignore the post... but every time we have a discussion about the police or use of force or whatever, theres always a few that defend the criminal and blame the cop...

    I've been a cop for over 20 years now, busted alot of heads (fiquer of speech), put alot of bad guys in jail, but in reflect think I was fair, honest, and never made a false arrest, knowningly... I'm big, and like it that way. 5'9... 230... not muscle, but not fat..just big... OK some fat, lol... I could stand to lose 20 to 30 pounds, but my weight helps me in my line of work... I'm direct and honest, sometimes too honest and that gets me in trouble...

    I've worked nights almost all those 20 years, so 90% of the people I run into are usually up to no good, while 10% are good honest citizens in the wrong place at the wrong time... (compared to day shift where those stats are reversed.)

    I don't preach or belittle subjects, I find them, I arrest them, if they resist, I use force, I take them to jail and end of story... this is how 95% of all the cops I've ever known are... just guys (and girls) doing a job that keeps us out of an office, and into some action... The truth is, I am not a cop to "save lives" as everyone on COPS says, lol, true that is a bonus, and defending the victim is pure satisfaction... but I'm a cop because i like to take criminals to jail, I like to find them, chase them, then arrest them... it's fun...

    bad cops, sure I've seen them... we have probably 3 of them in my department right now, how they manage to slide through some investigations is beyond me... there power hungry, and like to flex there power..... and most of the other cops go the other way when they get into ****... lol... don't want to be apart of that investigation... lol...

    most bad cops don't make it past 3 years, but the damage they do during that three years is heavy and longstanding, and overcast all the good we do... fact of life...

    my question to you guys who always take an opportunity to post negative comments about cops and police actions...

    1. how old are you? (it is my belief that the younger crowd is more anti-police (16 to 25))

    2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent?

    3. why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops?

    4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops?

    5. what, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us?

    and finally, any questions you have, feel free to ask, if i can I'll answer them, may not be what you want to hear, but I'll try and answer honest and truthfully...

    because I really want to know.

    oh and to add fuel to the fire (joking, we have great scene of humor BTW):
    Image removed due to language. (sorry Magnum)--pokerface
    Last edited by Pokerface; 10-25-2007, 11:50 AM.
    Magnum |TG-18th|


    We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.


  • #2
    Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

    and please... if you appreciate the cops...THANKS, big thanks, but don't need to reply here... it's not a poll, lol.

    and please DO NOT bash anyone who shares there opinion or answers this post, I asked for it.

    and please don't tell me you play my salary! ;)


    BTW: I ask this here because for 20 years I've worked nights, sleep and game during the day... so NO, I have no friends outside of law enforcement. ;)
    Magnum |TG-18th|


    We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

      My biggest annoyance with the law officers I've dealt with is that they immediately assume that I've (20 year old male) done something wrong, or I'll mouth off.

      Was pulled over for going 35 in a 30. I had accelerated quickly out of a red light and was leveling off my speed to the normal for the area. It was probably about 10:30 on a weekend night, and was driving two friends home a few years ago. Cop pulls me over, asks for my lisence and registration and all that stuff. Doesn't even ask/say anything, just gives me a ticket. I read it the next day: 35 in a 30 estimated. Wrote that I was born in '84 (supposed to be '87), I was driving a different car, and some other stuff was screwed up. Show up to court date, he wasn't there, but they had a cop filling in for him (which I've always heard they can't do, if they don't show, you're free to go). Judge/Cop look at the ticket and laugh and I'm out in 5 mins.

      My other time: at a park with friend playing frisbee at night (its dark, but its a lightup disc). We're walking back to our car and a cop starts asking us why we're there, what we've been doing, and if we've seen anyone else there. I answer nicely and honestly and didn't know the park closed at dusk, I was in a town I wasn't familiar with. Starts threatening he can arrest us for trespassing and that he needs to check our IDs and run checks and all this crap all the time shining his flashlight straight in our faces.

      At the same park a few weeks later, its getting late, been dark for like 15 mins, friends and I are starting to head out, and a cop drives by and starts yelling at us for being there. Asks us if we've seen anyone else, I answer nicely saying that I just saw two people running around the track 2 minutes ago and he took that as me being a smartass when I was actually just pointing out the fact that we didn't think we were doing anything wrong and that there were obviously other people still there.

      Few issues where a cop has stopped traffic due to an accident/construction. The other night, he held up cars on the highway and then turned around and walked away and I inched forward, getting ready to start going again and he turned around and flipped out yelling. I had thought he was letting us go, he didn't make any gesture to not go or stay there to direct the traffic (93, its a major highway going through Boston and I'd just gotten through about 3 miles of bumper to bumper traffic), which I thought was pretty dumb considering there were so many cars behind me.

      Another issue, few weeks ago, was doing like 38 in a 30, and there was a cop checking on one of the roadside speed signs and saw me and almost ran into the middle of the street yelling to slow down. I regularly see people do like 60 down that road, and actually just this week someone died on that street. I understand the reasoning behind low speeds in densely settled areas and whatnot. But this was a weekday morning at 8:50 on a sideroad that is very wide, room enough for parking on both sides of the street, and I pass on average 7 cars going down it to work. Was there a reason for him to get angry enough to yell and jump into the street?

      My main issue is that the few cops I've dealt with won't treat me the way I treat them. I answer questions and try to help them out, understanding they're doing their job, but they immediately go off on me. Sadly, the few cops I've dealt with seem to fit into the 5% of you mentioned. Far too angry and abrupt.

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      • #4
        Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

        thx... heck thats alot of cop contact you had so far, lol... I was a motorcycling, Mustang driving teenager and probably only had contact with the cops 3 times in my life time. lol

        2 were cool as hell, one was a total jackdonkey... the 5% er.
        Magnum |TG-18th|


        We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

          Hahah, but I can guess that you think pretty much all of them have been pretty trivial matters.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

            I'll start off by saying I don't hate cops. I hate bad cops and by bad I mean way more than someone being investigated by IA.

            Two stories I'll share that are relevent.

            First. One day my girlfriend, her 8 y/o son and myself were walking through the city center. We came to a crosswalk and as the light was about to turn we started to step off, anticipating the pedestrian light. Seeing us step out, but not watching the lights, a young police officer raised his voice in anger and yelled at all three of us like we were idiots preparing to sacrifice ourselves by a speeding car. He yelled...and I mean yelled so loud that my somewhat perpetually nervous girlfriend was startled to tears by his rageful response. I turned around and let him have it with both barrels and yelled equally loud right back at him with an ire that was well justified. While his intent was admirable his delivery was poor at best. Though I forget the exact words now my message essentially was--"What kind of public servant purposefully scares the people he's paid to serve and protect?" Well, of course you know he didn't take kindly to my response as he probably expected a meek "I'm sorry sir" and got quite the opposite. After yelling at us a bit more I asked for his badge number and his supervisor and promised to discuss the matter with his patrol sargent at my earliest convenience. He responded with a threat to arrest me for disturbing the peace. I said, "go ahead. I'll be glad to make you do the paperwork for a chicken **** arrest like that." He said, and this is a direct quote as I'll never forget it, " Jesus Christ, I don't get paid enough to deal with people like you." All this because he was discurteous I was discurteous right back. Scary to think what he'd do in a real crisis.

            Second. I'm a fisherman. Nearby is an excellent bass pond I frequent. There is a locked gate that prevents access by car to the waterside. This means if you want to use a boat your looking at a long portage and carrying equipment back and forth from your car to the water. Not fun but definately worthwhile as the fishing is fantastic. One day at this pond I was trudging my boat and equpment back and forth when a private vehicle pulled towing a small boat pulled up to the gate. The driver got out, unlocked the gate and pulled proceeded to put his boat in at the water (damaging substantially the grassy bathing area I might add)...of course I said what gives, how can I get access too...The answer that came back was " we're police officers and we don't follow the same rules as civilians. No be off on your way..." Of course neither of them was in uniform. (I concede they may have just said they were police officers)

            Both these events happened while I was in my early twenties and were substantial factors in forming my opinion, attitudes and behaviors towards law enforcement officers today. Don't get me wrong, now in my forties, I respect the unfiorm and the position accordingly. If pulled over or interviewed I'll respond with respect and honesty as I've got nothing to hide. But to me these seemingly innocuous events are emblematic of a cultural attitude I perceive from the law enforcement community. One that says "I'm above the rules that civilians follow and don't dare question me".

            I'm not one to condemn whole groups of people en masse mind you. I fully recognize there are good and bad in all walks of life and if I was a betting man I'd bet the LEO found within TG squarely fall into the good category ( as most cops probably do) But the events I described above formed a tapestry that will forever shape my attitudes and beliefs about cops for as long as I live. And it doesn't help that for every one good story I hear about cops I hear at least twice as many bad ones.

            One more story that I think is relevent. I resisted talking about this on our forums when it came out becuae I'm not anti cop and don't want to be perceived that way. But, I have to add it now as its relevent and fits the pattern I've defined above. The story I refer to was about a kid in Missouri that had been pulled over several times and thought he'd been harrassed unfairly. Well he installed a mini vid camera in his car just so if it happened again time he'd have some documented evidence to prove his point (granted, his approach is earmarked with the folly of youthful exuberance) Well the kid pulls into an abandoned commuter rail parking lot at 2:00 a.m. and sitting there alone in the parking lot a cruiser pulls up to investigate. The kid politely and calmly asks the officer "What was I doing wrong sir?" The cop went off on him, berated him for several minutes using objectionable language, lorded his authority over him, all the while saying if he didn't smarten up he'd make up charges against him just so he could bring him to jail and create a nasty hassle to make him pay for his "insolence", or something to that effect. Well, sure enough, the kid got the whole thing on tape. he submitted the tape to the Police Chief...The officer, a long time vet-Patrol Sgt-eventually gets fired. Here's the CNN link if you want to see the story - http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/21/madcop.video.ap/ It's a bit eerie how it mirrors the first story I recounted above.

            I applaud your approach Magnum. Again I just want to stress I'm not anti cop...I'm anti abuse of authority and unfortunately I've experienced this first hand a number of times in dealing with LE officers. These personal experience have shaped my attitudes and beliefs since, but they are not arbitrarily or lightly reached.
            Last edited by Grunt 70; 10-25-2007, 12:25 PM.
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            |TG-1st|Grunt
            ARMA Admin (retired)
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            • #7
              Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

              Actually just thought of another one that was pretty funny. I go to school in Boston, Northeastern University to be specific. We have police officers that do campus security, but have full authority, same as regular BPD. For the most part, these guys are a bunch of jokes, overweight, slow, and lazy old men. NEU isn't in the greatest of areas, it borders Roxbury, a not so great neighborhood. Anyways, one day, a few friends and I are crossing Columbus Ave from our dorm to go somewhere on campus, and a cop is driving down the street. Now, we're in a crosswalk, and if you don't know, Mass has this crazy rule where pedestrians are always right, no matter what. So we're crossing and the cop slows down, stops and we're about to get onto his side of the road, and then he guns it and speeds away. If we had continued walking at the same pace, it would have been pretty damn close. I've also seen patrol cars flash their lights/sirens from time to time to just get students out of the way so they can drive down the road and stop on the side and do nothing.

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              • #8
                Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                I don't hate cops, per se. Mostly I have about as much tolerance of their attitudes as they do of mine. Like Anospa, I do my best to treat everyone respectfully...especially cops. But for some strange reason a gun and a badge (around here anyhow) somehow gives them a Pass on decency and respect.

                One of my most recent encounters happened last winter. I was driving home from my mother's, it was one of the worst winter storms of the year, and I was doing my best to stay safe by driving slow and steady to my destination. The road I was on was probably one of THE worst roads to be on during this storm. As I'm driving a city plow coming from the other directions zips right past me throwing ice into my windshield and all over the road in front of me. Sure enough, I spin out, lose control, my van ends up in a 4 foot ditch. What a day right? It gets better. I call my stepfather to see if he can pull me out, he comes and checks the scene, realizes he can't. By this time I'm in touch with my girl who is pregnant...she's on her way to pick me up. Stepdad leaves and a minute behind him good ole State Police pulls up. I'm thinking great! Help has arrived. He gets out of the car just as I was about to call my insurance for the tow...he stops me...insists I hang up the phone. So I do. He then asks me what happened and I explain to him. He goes back to his car with my ID that he took. Runs me. Comes back. Tells me I have to get this towed NOW and that I can't leave it there. I tell him I had no intention on leaving it there and that I was in the process of calling my insurance to have it towed when he arrived. He asks me who my insurance is and who my preferred towing company is. I give him the number to my insurance company. He goes back to his cruiser...I'm thinking "Awesome...he's going to get on the horn and make this happen right now." He comes back, just as my girl and her mom are pulling up. Informs that a tow truck is on its way. He was right, pretty quick too. But it wasn't a truck from the towing company my insurance uses. I'm thinking there must be a reason so I don't question it. Tow truck pulls my van out of the ditch. Then the tower asks me for money. I said it's covered by the insurance. He says he's not through my insurance, but rather he works for the company that tows vehicles for the state troopers. Now I'm confused...I tell him I don't have that kind of money on me. Immediately the cop gets in my face, gets crappy with me, and pretty much belittles me for not having that money and with his hand on the butt of his pistol he tells me I have to give him my keys because they're impounding my vehicle AND THEN hands me a ticket for wreckless driving. I wasn't even going 30 in a 55 the conditions were so bad. So here I am, in the middle of a winter storm, my girl 7 months pregnant standing out there with me, her mom had just left when she saw the van get out of the ditch...stranded. I start freaking out a little and used a few colorful words with that cop. Asked him how he even sleeps at night screwing people over like that. Thankfully we were able to call her mom back and she came and got us about 10 minutes later.

                I'm 30 years old and this is just one of the more memorable moments in my not so great experiences with law enforcement.

                What can you guys do to make it better? Remember that you're just people too. Remember the job you signed up for isn't all about making bad guys out of everyone you meet. Be keepers of the peace, not oppressors of the people.

                On the question of arrest...I was once arrested for not paying a 15 dollar fine because my dog was picked up without dog tags. This happened on an easter sunday and I missed my daughter in her church recital. The cops who picked me up carried on in the front seat like they'd really caught a bad one too.

                I don't think there's much hope that my opinion will ever change. But I do realize that not all cops are bad cops. And by bad I don't mean just the corrupt ones...I mean the cops that have very little respect for anybody who's not a cop and has no problem treating them like second class citizens as well.
                | | |

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                • #9
                  Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                  I'd agree with Anospa to some degree here.
                  As a preface, let me say that I have nothing but the utmost respect for police officers. They do a very hard job for less than adequate pay and benefits. But I have been on the receiving end of the "god-complex" cop treatment a few times. I've also seen where some of it comes from and I'll explain. But first a story.
                  I'm now 25 years old. This story occurred 3 years ago when I was 22.
                  I had just come back to Tampa on summer vacation and was driving home from dinner at a family friend's house in a very nice neighborhood at about 10:45 at night. As I'm driving home, I get pulled over by a police officer. I wasnt speeding, was doing nothing wrong, and expected the police officer to come up and ask me for my license and registration. My hands stayed visibly on the wheel the whole time. To my surprise, I look in the mirror to see the officer with gun drawn. He orders me to turn off the car and put the keys out the window, then reach out and open the door from the outside with my left hand. I comply. He tells me to step out, interlace my fingers behind my head and walk backward toward him, again, I comply to the letter. He stops me about halfway down the bed of my truck, approaches me, slams me full force into the bed of my truck and very roughly cuffs me. I asked him what I was being detained for (wasnt arrested yet, no rights read) and he told me to shut up. He takes my wallet, my cell phone and my keys and puts them on the back of the truck without bothering to check my ID. He then spins me around and says "so you think you little teenage a***oles can just beat the crap out of people and get away with it, huh?" to which I responded, "Sir, I havent been involved in a fight tonight and am actually not a teenager. I'm simply on my way home from dinner at a family friend's house." He tells me to shut up, calls for assist units on his radio and begins to search my truck, inside and out, without asking permission or showing probable cause. He takes my cigarettes and tells me that i'll be getting "extra time" for smoking underage (keep in mind, he still hasnt checked my ID). I point out again that I'm not a teenager, that I'm 22 years old and he's more than welcome to run my ID. He opens my wallet and says "22 huh? with an out of state ID. RIIIIGHT. You know having a fake ID is automatically 3 years in this state?" I simply stopped talking until his backup units arrived. Luckily, one of his backup units was a very good friend of mine who worked off-duty shifts at the bar I went to frequently and immediately recognized me. He immediately turned me loose and tore the other cop a new one. I made sure to file an official complaint the next day at 1 Police Plaza downtown.

                  I've also seen where a lot of it comes from. I put my ex through school at IUP, a school which produces 3 things: Teachers, Nurses and Cops. I heard on more occasions than I can count from people I knew that the reason they were criminology majors was so they could have a gun and power. Whether that power was to be able to flip on the lights and run red lights or speed all over town without getting in trouble, or whether that power was to be able to inflict pain on other people, I heard it all. There were very few people that I knew that were crim majors who were in it to uphold the law, secure justice and serve the public. It sickens me to this day that those kind of people can actually get a badge.

                  But as I said, for those officers who do their job right and know they're not some minor god, my hat is off. But the bad apples are always the ones that seem to make the spotlight and create the resentful memories.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                    I don't "hate" the cops anymore than I "don't support the troops". The issue I have is with police brutality, use of excessive force and abuse of power.
                    |TG-9th| TheFatKidDeath
                    "Born to Party, Forced to Work."
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                    • #11
                      Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                      I have nothing against the police, even though I disagree with many of the laws they are required to enforce. I've certainly had encounters with 'bad' police (as a youth/minor), but I have had far more encounters with good police - who not only do their job but do it well and with pride. There are bad apples in every batch, and unfortunately this is one profession where a bad apple is literally a recipe for disaster.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                        Around here the joke is that there has GOT to be a good apple in the bunch somewhere.
                        | | |

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                        • #13
                          Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                          Originally posted by Magnum50 View Post
                          1. how old are you? (it is my belief that the younger crowd is more anti-police (16 to 25))
                          25 Years old.

                          2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent?
                          No and N/A.

                          3. why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops?
                          I start police officers on the same respect scale as anyone I've first met. "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" are commonly used phrases by me, but not in a "talking to my drill sargent" tone of voice. Both have that "Texas Schtick" like "yessir." It's just the way I speak to people who aren't close friends.

                          Now, the conversation I have with the officer will determine the extent of my respect towards him. Most of my experiences with officers have been almost casual conversation. I have thanked an officer for being professional and wished him a nice day even after he wrote me a ticket. It's his job.

                          4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops?
                          I've shot with a few cops at the range. They're normal people. Now, this can be good and bad.

                          5. what, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us?
                          1. Drop the attitude. It is perfectly acceptable in your line of work to remain professional even when under stress. I cringe when I see a video of a cop ordering a person down on the ground while cursing at the suspect.

                          I don't curse in front of "customers" unless I know them real well. Sure, the guys cops run into aren't trying to buy a computer, but they are still people.

                          I've always been of the mind that there are people who are going to hate my guts, but at the end of the day, they WILL respect the way I carried myself.

                          2. Don't judge people based upon appearance and act like they're going to "try something" all the time. If you can't manage that, at least don't let them know about it. Most cops try and make people think they're job is so dangerous, they have to treat each traffic stop like it's going to turn into a gunfight. The attitude portrayed by that line of thinking puts people on edge. If a cop is acting nervous, think what they guy you pulled over is thinking.

                          3. Mind you own business. I was coming out of a bar with a long-time friend, while an officer was in the process of speaking to an obvious drunk driver. Now, neither of us were drunk and were just having a casual conversation, when Katy said "I couldn't believe what that bitch did" in a normal tone of voice.

                          The cop made sure to stop and say "Watch your mouth." Katy, without thinking, said "Sorry." My comment was "Don't F-ing apologize to him" loud enough so the cop could hear me. People dropping a curse word or two in casual conversation in a bar parking lot isn't exactly something a cop should concern himself with. You aren't purveyors of morality, you're law enforcement officers.

                          Really, I think 90% of peoples misconceptions about cops would be removed if they just acted like normal people. You can be 100% professional and still have your hand on your gun ready to go if something hits the fan.

                          4. Understand that someone may not have an ulterior motive for not letting you press a situation more than you should. If I say "No" when you ask to search my car after I've given no reason to think you should, you need to come up with something better than "It would make me feel better if you'd let me search your car." Because, if you didn't have that badge, my comment back to you would be "Well, I'd feel a lot better with a drink in my hand and a girl on my lap, but you don't see me complaining."

                          I get tired of this "brow beat "suspects" into submission" approach. One of the best ways I saw an officer get more info out of a suspect was to tell a joke. "You got anything in the car? Drugs, guns, rocket launchers, yo-yos?" The fact that the suspect didn't laugh and just kept nervously shaking his head gave more info than a bad attitude ever could. Because when a cop is "in your face" and trying to intimidate you, you can end up doing stupid things even if you're just an average joe.

                          Note: When I say "you" in reference to this thread, I'm not pointing out anyone in particular. It's just easier than typing out "the particular officer" 600 times.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                            Originally posted by TheFeniX View Post
                            Most cops try and make people think they're job is so dangerous, they have to treat each traffic stop like it's going to turn into a gunfight.
                            Keep in mind that traffic stops account for the vast majority of felony arrests. Cops DO have to treat each traffic stop like it's going to turn into a gunfight! In fact, they have to treat every single person they contact as a potential felon trying to kill them. The trick is for the officer to have a plan to stop you instantly, without looking like he's got a plan to shoot you in the head as he's asking for your driver's license. Once they know who you are, you'll often see a huge difference in the way they act. For instance, when you present your CHL, (unless you're talking to some anti-gun freakjob) you'll probably see the cop visibly relax because he knows he's dealing with a responsible citizen that has no criminal history.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops...

                              OK... thx for the comments... the general opinion is that the officers initial approach and tone of conversation is the problem, and I have to agree... I see it all the time and 8 out of 10 times it's a rookie cop, the other 2 being a older cop near retirement... I'd say the 5 year to 15 year cop is the most active, most professional, and most dedicated officer (IMO). (and I know theres always exceptions to the rule.)

                              I remember when I first became a cop, I had an attitude, badge and gun...king poop, I felt 10 feet tall (wish now I could go back and change some of my confrontations, or at least apologize to the persons)...

                              and I remember the day/incident it changed for me... 2nd year as a cop, get dispatched to 5 black males doing drugs behind a building... I park away and sneak in on them, like an idiot I jump out of the bush at them grab 2 of them and fight is on... none ran like I thought, thats why I grabbed 2 figured i get 2 of them at least... nope, all 5 beat my donkey... I hit my emergency button, was at the bottom of the pile in the fetal position getting hit and kicked... looked up to see 5 police cars coming in a row lights and sirens, greatest image (besides my 2 daughters) I've ever seen... they ran and i got none of them.

                              That was the day I changed, decided to be more safe, more professional, and less cocky.. i thought I was dead that night. (also 3 other times in my 20 year career, lol.)

                              So... there is no excuse, and nothing i could say to change your opinions... but at least it's out in the open... first impressions count.
                              Magnum |TG-18th|


                              We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.

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