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  • If China had invaded iraq instead of us

    On another forum I frequent this topic was brought up. Rather than reword what I said I'll just copy it:

    Can anyone even imagine what would've resulted if China or Russia for instance had invaded iraq instead of us? World war 3? You bet. That would severely jeopardize our "oil interests", and you can bet we would've consequently declared war on either of them. Of course, I doubt china or russia would go around saying they're trying to "seed democracy". No one would believe that. But because its the good ol' freedom lovin' USA trying to "seed democracy", its alright. No one would suspect a thing? Oops, I guess some people DID suspect something.

    So, this is just a "what if" thread. If everything had gone the same, but instead of Bush declaring war (something he never had the authority to do), china did, what do you think our response would've been? I think its very likely that the entire world would've condemned it much more harshly than the entire world condemns our invasion. Where you stand would likely be a smouldering cauldron of radioactivity because china would've almost certainly had the support of russia, our nuclear adversary.

  • #2
    Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

    What makes you say that the middle east would get nuked? Perhaps you dont pay enough attention to world events, but Russia, who is our nuclear adversary as you claim, has been embroiled in armed conflict several times since the soviet union dissolved. Have they used nuclear weapons? Have they EVER used nuclear weapons as an offensive measure? No. The ONLY country to have ever used nuclear weapons in conflict is the United States at the end of WWII.

    Now, if the Chinese had invaded, it might have actually turned out much better than our invasion did. Why? Easy: our forces would have gone in too. We werent the only country to send troops to Iraq, not by a long shot. Combine a mighty force of Chinese and US soldiers that have to work together, military strategists, officials and politicians that have to work together to coordinate an offensive, cleanup and restructuring of a country. It opens the door for vast diplomatic talks and massive collaboration between two countries that have shaky trade agreements at best.

    There is no evidence to conclude that anything would have gone badly. Based on the events of the war, have our diplomatic relations with any of the allied countries gone south to the point of possible conflict? No. All the countries involved sent troops based on their support of the invasion in one form or another.

    My personal opinion is that we would have carried out the offensive in the same fashion as we did, but had the opportunity for a greater political forum in which to deal with china.

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    • #3
      Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

      Anyone who thinks we would war with China is foolish. Our economies are so interdependent it should make your jaw drop.
      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
      I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
      Feel free to quote me. ~

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      • #4
        Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

        Originally posted by ednos View Post
        Anyone who thinks we would war with China is foolish. Our economies are so interdependent it should make your jaw drop.
        I highly doubt we'll see a World War again. Economies in general have become so interdependent that it would take a seriously loonytoons leader with alot of power to start something on a global level.

        There seems to be no end to the loonytoons, but thankfully none of them get beyond the "Petty Dictator" stage.
        I am the one, I am the zero, I am your low resolution hero.

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        • #5
          Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

          China would not invade Iraq in the current global climate. If there were resources in Iraq that they wanted badly enough, and didn't have much to lose at the UN, they would simply have bought them from Saddam.
          In game handle: Steel Scion
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          • #6
            Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

            The PRC does not have the means of transporting its troops relatively anywhere except by foot. For that matter, they do not even have the equipment for an amphibious assault on Taiwan, and accordingly certainly do not have the logistical structure and internal stability to conduct a campaign in a foreign country.

            If you disregard that, what would most likely happen would be an incredible amount of public outcry and increased dissent within the PRC, an intense internal war funding crisis for the PRC, and international economic sanctions on the PRC that would utterly wreck the overheated economy.

            So basically, no. Impossible if they thought about it, impossible if they did it anyway.

            Edit: And Saddam's troops may have actually won, given that the PRC would have no staging ground to amass troops along a border, have no amphibious assault craft, and have no nearby airbases for helicopter airdrop. Getting troops into a country that doesn't border your own is incredibly tough, and the USA is quite amazing in the fact that it actually can.

            -Zephyr
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            You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

            Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

            Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

            We are no clan.
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            • #7
              Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

              Originally posted by ednos View Post
              Anyone who thinks we would war with China is foolish. Our economies are so interdependent it should make your jaw drop.
              Oh nah, not really. We could easily strike China out of the equation, as crazy as it seems. It really is great to do business with them though, very awesome for us and good for them. I mean if you look at it in almost any way it is quite amazing how much we get for so little from them. Sure, the corporations would have to move to Singapore or Vietnam, and prices wouldn't be as cheap, but the difference isn't so grand. It is easy to look at those countries compared to China by size and say that there's no way they could compete, but thats really not true at all when you count how much of China's land is actually livable as well as contains factory locations that can reach international shipping lanes.

              -Zephyr
              You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

              You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

              Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

              Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

              We are no clan.
              We are not a single game.
              We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
              We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

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              • #8
                Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                I don't think you understand. China pours BILLIONS of dollars into our bonds every year. BILLIONS. EVERY YEAR. That's an investment. People don't declare war on their investments. We won't declare war on our *primary* source of income for domestic spending, either.
                The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                Feel free to quote me. ~

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                • #9
                  Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                  Originally posted by ednos View Post
                  I don't think you understand. China pours BILLIONS of dollars into our bonds every year. BILLIONS. EVERY YEAR. That's an investment. People don't declare war on their investments. We won't declare war on our *primary* source of income for domestic spending, either.
                  You make it sound like them investing in us is somehow to our detriment?

                  Read: our bonds. They want to put their money into our country? Fantastic, how can we lose? We can declare war on whoever we damn well please, because putting sanctions on us would hurt the rest of the world economically more than just letting us do our thing. They pull their money out of our bonds, they'd get hurt so economically they wouldn't be able to crush internal rebellion.

                  Sure it wouldn't be wonderful to invade them, but if they started invading Taiwan, South Korea, Kazakhstan, Russia, Myanmar, Afghanistan, and Mongolia, we'd be flying troops in there before you could say "That was the dumbest thing the PRC's ever done!"

                  No country is that stupid, and if it dares to be, the USA can and will whip it into line. Might change in the future, but as it stands we're still the only superpower and will probably remain so until the 2020's.

                  -Zephyr
                  You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

                  You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

                  Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

                  Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

                  We are no clan.
                  We are not a single game.
                  We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
                  We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                    They only invest in US bonds to keep their currency inflated to make their goods cheap. If they failed to do this, we'd be taking an economic hit that we really don't want to deal with. It's a *balance*, not a hegemony.
                    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                    I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                    Feel free to quote me. ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                      But surely getting cheap goods for next to nothing while forcing the country of production to invest in us in order for their economy to be stable is a win-win situation for the USA? If they failed to do what they're doing, we'd raise import tariffs on them using the WTO's laws on "dumping" of products and their economy would collapse. If anything, them investing in our bonds is their way of showing that they want our business and will do anything to keep it.

                      -Zephyr
                      You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

                      You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

                      Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

                      Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

                      We are no clan.
                      We are not a single game.
                      We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
                      We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                        Probably the fastest I've ever seen a thread go off topic. I think the point of the original question was lost. It wasn't, "Is China capable of invasion?", "What would happen to our economies if the US invaded China?"

                        I'm pretty sure mentholated was asking "What would the US reponse have been if China (or country X) had invaded Iraq to look for WMD/liberate the people?"

                        Frankly, I think we would have condemned the action, possibly sending our own troops as a counter-invasion, which could have been the beginning throes of another great war. The US doesn't really approve of anyone else, save for a few very close allies perhaps, invading anywhere. Hell, Turkey's parliament gave the country a go ahead to send troops into Iraq in response to cross-border attacks from terrorists, and our response was, "You shouldn't do that."

                        Now, I can actually think of a host of good, logical reasons that I agree with that it's a bad idea for Turkey to invade northern Iraq. But I'm willing to bet the reason the US says no is because we just don't want any country but ours launching any military action.
                        [squadl]
                        "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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                        • #13
                          Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                          Originally posted by Zephyr View Post
                          But surely getting cheap goods for next to nothing while forcing the country of production to invest in us in order for their economy to be stable is a win-win situation for the USA?
                          Their economy would fare better than ours--they have other customers, but 90% of the goods we get from them aren't made at anything less than ten times the price anywhere else.
                          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                          I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                          Feel free to quote me. ~

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                            Originally posted by ednos View Post
                            I don't think you understand. China pours BILLIONS of dollars into our bonds every year. BILLIONS. EVERY YEAR. That's an investment. People don't declare war on their investments. We won't declare war on our *primary* source of income for domestic spending, either.
                            We don't wage wars to lose money, we wage wars to make money.

                            Why do you think the US goes to war every 15~ years?


                            Its so good for our economy.


                            China would gladly go to war with us if it boosted both of our economies, because we'd just call a truce after reducing their population for them and expanding their technological progress in order to have a better chance at a faux-defeating us.

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                            • #15
                              Re: If China had invaded iraq instead of us

                              Originally posted by ednos View Post
                              Their economy would fare better than ours--they have other customers, but 90% of the goods we get from them aren't made at anything less than ten times the price anywhere else.
                              I immediately contest that with Vietnam, they'll do it for cheaper.

                              -Zephyr
                              You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

                              You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

                              Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

                              Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

                              We are no clan.
                              We are not a single game.
                              We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
                              We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

                              Comment

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