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FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

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  • #16
    Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

    Originally posted by USN_Squid
    Why do you think they singled out this person to visit?
    They didn't - if you read the report you'll see they visted another house.

    And anyway - what's that got to do with anything? She had no history of violence, no criminal record so the police had no business harassing her or her friends.
    Jex.

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    • #17
      Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

      Originally posted by =luna=
      No, police officers should not come to my house and tell me how to express myself. On the otherhand, it is completely within their rights to come to my house and remind me that while expressing my views, violence will be entirely unacceptable. The police didn't tell them they COULDN'T protest, nor did they threaten them if they DID protest. They simply drew a very clear line of when they would be more than happy to take action. I think that is fair, and I applaud their efforts in prevention instead of brute force in the face of violence.
      Oh come on! You mean to say that you think it's ok for cops to come to your door and remind you not to break the law - since when has that EVER happened? They knew she'd be most likely protesting and decided to try and harass her into submission, her friends too and another house down the road.

      Why didn't they stop at other houses then, why just hers? Just coinicidence right?

      And you think it's ok as a law abiding citizen for a cop to come round your house and remind you how you should behave?
      Jex.

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      • #18
        Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

        Originally posted by =luna=
        So lemmie get this straight by proposing a hypothetical situation.

        Say the FBI had a feeling a group of guys were planning a terrorist plot to jam some airplanes into the World Trade Center. Based on what you have said, the ONLY point where they could validly take action is by what, waiting until the guys got on the actual planes? A visit to them saying we know what you may be up to and will take action if you attempt to follow through seems to me to be a rather effective preventative measure. It sure beats bomb squads and chaos.

        It seems to me that you would rather break out the bomb squad and rush someone's home because you waited them out until they "acted", when a simple knock on the door a little earlier on could have saved them a huge headache (not to mention, saved them a ton of public dollars).

        I'm not understanding you, I don't think. Can you clarify this for me?
        Well they weren't terrorists were they and they didn't know what they were up to. Had they been terrorists then a friendly warning would most probably make them go into hiding (which wouldn't be a good idea) or make them bring their plans closer or change them completely. However if they did think they were terrorists then they could have arrested them since now, people arrested under suspicion of terrorism have no rights, no access to a lawyer and the authorities don't even have to tell anyone they have you.

        Saying they 'could be terrorists' is falling for the propoganda machine. Now everyone's using the 'could be terrorists so it's ok for the state to harass its citizens' excuse.
        Jex.

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        • #19
          Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

          Originally posted by Fait_Maker
          You know what they said in Grosse Pointe Blank... "If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there."

          I don't think they did anything terribly wrong. Nobody's rights were violated. Since when is it a violation for a cop to knock on your door and ask you some questions? People need to stop being so sensitive. This is not oppression.
          While in this case they were barely verging on harrasement and did not exceed their powers, I think it is *vital* that people are sensitive about things like this. If we want to keep the civil liberties our society is based upon, then we have to pay attention and make a big fuss if they are infringed even a tiny amount.
          Wintermute

          Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space.

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          • #20
            Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

            Originally posted by jex
            Oh come on! You mean to say that you think it's ok for cops to come to your door and remind you not to break the law - since when has that EVER happened? They knew she'd be most likely protesting and decided to try and harass her into submission, her friends too and another house down the road.

            Why didn't they stop at other houses then, why just hers? Just coinicidence right?

            And you think it's ok as a law abiding citizen for a cop to come round your house and remind you how you should behave?
            They didn't tell them how to behave as much as warned them how not to behave. And yes, I don't see a problem with what they did.

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            • #21
              Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

              Originally posted by Wintermute
              While in this case they were barely verging on harrasement and did not exceed their powers, I think it is *vital* that people are sensitive about things like this. If we want to keep the civil liberties our society is based upon, then we have to pay attention and make a big fuss if they are infringed even a tiny amount.
              You're right.. let's sue.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                Originally posted by jex
                So you think that policemen should come around your house and tell you how you should express your views. This is an idle threat, a bully tactic used to scare pepole from not making a scene. Why are the police telling them not to commit violence when they've never done so before? Why is the state getting involved in your right to protest? You have a seriuosly skewed sense of reality if you see nothing wrong here.

                OK, please explain to me how these people were "threatened". What was the threat? Tell me exactly how these agents restricted anyone's right to protest. I'm simply not seeing it and I'm asking you to show me what exactly was wrong about it.

                I don't see what is wrong with a cop telling you not to commit a crime. In fact, it used to be done quite often when there were actually beat cops that worked the same neighborhood all the time. Now our population has outgrown our police force in exponential proportions and it's simply not possible for law enforcement to be as proactive as they were a couple of generations ago...
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                • #23
                  Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                  Funny thing, according to this logic, when Smokey the Bear told you that only you can prevent forest fires, he must have been harrassing young people

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                  • #24
                    Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                    Originally posted by Wolfie
                    Funny thing, according to this logic, when Smokey the Bear told you that only you can prevent forest fires, he must have been harrassing young people
                    Smokey was in a TV commercial. Smokey did not knock on doors of "suspected outdoorsmen" with five of his friends to give a "friendly reminder" of the consequences of starting forest fires.
                    [volun2]
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                    • #25
                      Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                      Originally posted by =luna=
                      So lemmie get this straight by proposing a hypothetical situation.

                      Say the FBI had a feeling a group of guys were planning a terrorist plot to jam some airplanes into the World Trade Center. Based on what you have said, the ONLY point where they could validly take action is by what, waiting until the guys got on the actual planes? A visit to them saying we know what you may be up to and will take action if you attempt to follow through seems to me to be a rather effective preventative measure. It sure beats bomb squads and chaos.

                      It seems to me that you would rather break out the bomb squad and rush someone's home because you waited them out until they "acted", when a simple knock on the door a little earlier on could have saved them a huge headache (not to mention, saved them a ton of public dollars).

                      I'm not understanding you, I don't think. Can you clarify this for me?
                      No.
                      In your hypothetical, there is more than likely conspiratorial evidence of their plans and such.

                      Like I said before, the trigger doesn't have to be pulled before the police go after the gunman, but he better damn sure have a gun, you know?
                      [volun2]
                      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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                      • #26
                        Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                        Originally posted by Pokerface
                        Smokey was in a TV commercial. Smokey did not knock on doors of "suspected outdoorsmen" with five of his friends to give a "friendly reminder" of the consequences of starting forest fires.
                        If those same kids were haning out on the internet in suspected arsonist chat rooms talking about blocking firetrucks from reaching a forest fire, or punching the tires out of the trucks then I hope Smokey would go to their door and give them a warning about the consequence of their actions.
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                        • #27
                          Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                          Originally posted by Pokerface
                          In your hypothetical, there is more than likely conspiratorial evidence of their plans and such.
                          Look, the police can't publicly release investigative findings on people... I guarantee that there was a reason why these kids got visited by the FBI. Federal agents don't just go knock on people's doors for no reason...
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                          • #28
                            Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                            What's your plan for fighting terrorism? Pull out of Iraq and muzzle the cops so they don't trample anyone's rights by talking to them? I don't see that achieving much for us, but it would be highly effective for the other side.
                            Last edited by leejo; 08-19-2004, 09:51 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                              Here's a follow up to this story. Naturally the ACLU and Ms. Sarah Bardwell scream foul. But I think this is a key statement:

                              "None of the activists consented to the interviews."


                              Full Story
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                              • #30
                                Re: FBI, police visits to young people rile ACLU official

                                Originally posted by USN_Squid
                                Here's a follow up to this story. Naturally the ACLU and Ms. Sarah Bardwell scream foul. But I think this is a key statement:

                                "None of the activists consented to the interviews."


                                Full Story
                                What does that mean? None of them consented to the interviews? So no interviews actually took place? Or did the FBI torture the activists until they answered the questions?

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