Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OK, how a tazer can save/work...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OK, how a tazer can save/work...

    We see alot of articles and stories on how the Tazer has killed a subject or whatever... "don't taze me bro"...

    so...what do you think of this article?

    BERKELEY, CA. – More than 450 police departments in California have equipped their officers with Tasers.

    Berkeley isn’t one of them.

    But in the aftermath of a deadly shooting of a South Berkeley woman by a Berkeley police officer, city leaders said they may rethink their ban on the weapons.

    “It’s too bad that our police don’t have other methods to subdue people,” Councilwoman Betty Olds said.

    Anita Gay, 51, was fatally shot by officer Rashawn Cummings outside her home in the 1700 block of Ward Street about 8 p.m. Saturday after police say she brandished a kitchen knife at an officer and family members. She died at the scene. Witnesses say she was shot in the back but police officials say they are awaiting an autopsy report from the Alameda County Coroner’s Office, expected later this week, before releasing details.

    The officer fired at least twice, police spokeswoman Sgt. Mary Kusmiss said.

    Based on a preliminary investigation, after reviewing three witness statements and the statement of the officer, Kusmiss said Monday “it appears the officer’s actions were justified.”

    The officer, who has been on the force for five years, is on paid administrative leave while internal affairs conducts an investigation, which could take a week or longer.

    As family members and friends grieve Gay’s death, and Oakland civil rights attorney John Burris prepares to file a wrongful death suit, there is no doubt subduing Gay with a Taser stun gun could have saved her life.

    Some models of the electroshock weapon can deliver a 50,000-volt jolt from 25 feet away, effectively subduing a person by disrupting superficial muscle functions, but generally not killing them.

    Many Bay Area police departments, including San Jose, Oakland, Fremont and Union City, have Tasers as part of their arsenal.

    Harry Stern, an attorney with Rains, Lucia Stern, which represents the police union, said the city’s Police Officers Association has asked for Tasers for years.

    But Tasers have their fair share of critics.

    According to Amnesty International, from June 2001 to June 2007, 245 people died in the United States after being shot with a Taser. Several of those Taser-related deaths were in the Bay Area.

    Oakland civil rights attorney Jim Chanin, who served on the Berkeley Police Review Commission in the 1970s, said Tasers can be an effective tool but they need to come with training.

    Chanin said with the right training and limited uses, “I have no problem with it. When it becomes a substitute for verbal persuasion then I do have a problem with it.”

    (c) 2008 YellowBrix, Inc.
    Magnum |TG-18th|


    We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.


  • #2
    Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

    send in the marines......o wait wrong thread.



    Who would he file that wrong full death suit against, the police department?
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

      Originally posted by Trooper View Post
      Who would he file that wrong full death suit against, the police department?
      Im wondering the same thing.

      The ban of tasers was, ironically, probably to avoid lawsuits from people dying of electrocution.
      "Give a man a match and he'll be warm for a minute. Light the man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

        Doesn't change my opinion on tasers one bit.
        | | |

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

          Originally posted by Icehawk217 View Post
          Im wondering the same thing.

          The ban of tasers was, ironically, probably to avoid lawsuits from people dying of electrocution.

          When people throw stats around they need to include all of it. What caused them to die, heart failure, to much "juice", those types of things. Dont just say 245 people died from 2001 to 2007, of course people died but im sure more died from older models then did the newer ones.
          that sounds like a good idea trooper.
          -Vulcan

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

            The news only report on when Tasers are used and the guy happens to die.

            They never report on when Tasers are used and nothing out of the ordinary happens.
            GOD IS DEAD. THE N00BS TEAMKILLED HIM.


            Titan specialist!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

              Originally posted by Shurikane View Post
              The news only report on when Tasers are used and the guy happens to die.

              They never report on when Tasers are used and nothing out of the ordinary happens.
              There is something so undignified about being tazed.

              http://www.bakelblog.com/nobodys_bus...omebody_p.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                Most the people that have died "due to evil tasers" infact died by another MOI. Most fell and hit something with their heads, or fell down stairs. I find it hard to believe that someone died directly from the tasers current. Voltage does not kill, amperage does. I have been shocked by 50,000 volts before, so what? It was uncomfortable, but I lived. They engineer the device to operate within safe amperage levels.


                I'm thinking fear of the unkown comes into play here.

                Oh, and that "don't tase me bro" idiot is a disgusting display of a current generation. What a D-Bag...


                My unadulterated $.02
                |TG-X|Turkish

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                  The facts are right there and these people freak out. 245 deaths in 6 years. Thats an average of 40.833 per year. Almost that many people a year die from water intoxication (and associated hyponatremia)! Thats right guys, almost as many people die a year by that statistic about tasers as people who drink themselves to death with plain old water. THATS RIDICULOUSLY LOW.

                  Also, as turkish said, how many of those 245 cases were positively confirmed to have been directly caused by the taser? It doesnt say. It just says 245 died after being shot with a taser. They could have diedd from any number of causes after that. Heres a clue: if you have a medical condition like an arrhythmia, dont screw with the cops!

                  The proud people of Berkeley have a long standing tradition of being idiots. No offense to anyone who lives there, because not everyone is a moron there, obviously. But I saw it firsthand as a child, and let me tell you, when the stupidity level is such that a 6th grader can recognize the depth of idiocy involved, it's pretty bad.

                  As the article states, tasers can be very effective if used properly and with proper training. So whats the solution? Train the people who use them to do so properly. DUH!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                    Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                    The facts are right there and these people freak out. 245 deaths in 6 years. Thats an average of 40.833 per year. Almost that many people a year die from water intoxication (and associated hyponatremia)! Thats right guys, almost as many people die a year by that statistic about tasers as people who drink themselves to death with plain old water. THATS RIDICULOUSLY LOW.

                    Also, as turkish said, how many of those 245 cases were positively confirmed to have been directly caused by the taser? It doesnt say. It just says 245 died after being shot with a taser. They could have diedd from any number of causes after that. Heres a clue: if you have a medical condition like an arrhythmia, dont screw with the cops!

                    The proud people of Berkeley have a long standing tradition of being idiots. No offense to anyone who lives there, because not everyone is a moron there, obviously. But I saw it firsthand as a child, and let me tell you, when the stupidity level is such that a 6th grader can recognize the depth of idiocy involved, it's pretty bad.

                    As the article states, tasers can be very effective if used properly and with proper training. So whats the solution? Train the people who use them to do so properly. DUH!
                    What if it was 245 people died from terrorist bombs on US soil? That would be OK? No need to worry about that?

                    Death is unavoidable. But people do try to at least control the method of death.

                    Now I made some statement in another thread about using tazers instead of guns when the person is brandishing a deadly weapon. Cing pointed out that this is not the case. That if the person is brandishing a weapon that can cause death they are going to use a gun, not a tazer. Maybe he only meant if the person is believed to have a firearm? Or maybe I misunderstood.

                    So if a person is rushing you with a knife are you going to use a gun or a tazer to stop them?
                    I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                    - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                    - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                    - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                    - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                    - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                    - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                      My problem isn't that 40.something people die a year...my problem happens when I hear of some old unarmed guy getting tased for "non-compliance" and ends up dying. Or when some kid who was drivnig too fast gets pulled out of his car and zapped. There's no justification to use that kind of force on unarmed and innocent civilians.

                      Is it a tool? Certainly. Does it have it's place? I'm sure it does. But I don't feel police officers are being taught not to use it in any and every situation that arises where someone may be acting a little nervous or confused. I don't have any numbers to give here, but I read not to long ago, that people most succeptible to death by taser are those with heart conditions or those high on narcotics. The latter I can see where the taser may be neccessary, but as there's no real certainty by looking at someone as to whether they have a heart condition...I'd say cops need to learn more discernment before just zapping Joe Blow because he can't keep his mouth shut.

                      Aren't you guys trained to subdue unarmed people physically?
                      | | |

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                        Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
                        Aren't you guys trained to subdue unarmed people physically?
                        I'd say the chances of someone getting injured in a wrestling match are just as good, if not greater, as someone getting hit with a taser and falling to the ground. A good way to break bones and tear muscles is to force someone's limbs to move in a certain way when they're fighting you. Not to mention the increased risk of the officer getting hurt/killed from the close contact.
                        [squadl]
                        "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                          Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                          The facts are right there and these people freak out. 245 deaths in 6 years. Thats an average of 40.833 per year. Almost that many people a year die from water intoxication (and associated hyponatremia)! Thats right guys, almost as many people die a year by that statistic about tasers as people who drink themselves to death with plain old water. THATS RIDICULOUSLY LOW.

                          Also, as turkish said, how many of those 245 cases were positively confirmed to have been directly caused by the taser? It doesnt say. It just says 245 died after being shot with a taser. They could have diedd from any number of causes after that. Heres a clue: if you have a medical condition like an arrhythmia, dont screw with the cops!

                          The proud people of Berkeley have a long standing tradition of being idiots. No offense to anyone who lives there, because not everyone is a moron there, obviously. But I saw it firsthand as a child, and let me tell you, when the stupidity level is such that a 6th grader can recognize the depth of idiocy involved, it's pretty bad.

                          As the article states, tasers can be very effective if used properly and with proper training. So whats the solution? Train the people who use them to do so properly. DUH!
                          I actually agree mostly with what you are saying, given the choice I would rather see a police officer using a taser, which has a chance, but a very, very reduced chance of killing the intended recipient, than a gun, which lets face it, if he feels the need to fire, is 50/50 whether he hits the right spot and lights out.

                          However that being said, there is a general attitude that seems to be circulated about the taser which says it’s safe, and non lethal. Well on the vast majority of cases yes, however, it can and does kill some people, and for that reason must be treated with the same respect as a gun. If mentally an officer assures himself that it is non lethal, and has not had adequate training, he might be more inclined to use this weapon, where if he only had a gun he might not.

                          and it is very easy to say don’t screw with the police, but it must also be considered, that some police officers are not nice people, an incredibly small minute number, but a number none the less, and where (because of the consequences) they would not have used a gun, they might vindictively use the taser, i stand by my comments in a previous thread on that, with the woman who was repeatedly tased for ridiculous action of not getting off the floor on command.... in my view vindictive, and unnecessary, had she died as a result of this i would certainly have agreed with unlawful killing.

                          That being said, the logic still speaks for its self on the safety issue. Being shot because you were behaving in a violent and threatening manner towards the police, yourself or a member of the public carry’s a far greater chance of death or serious injury than being tased. Yet the taser is for the most part, very effective at detaining suspects. For that reason, I would favour the use of tasers.

                          Just my 2 cents...


                          www.TeamElement.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                            Originally posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
                            I'd say the chances of someone getting injured in a wrestling match are just as good, if not greater, as someone getting hit with a taser and falling to the ground. A good way to break bones and tear muscles is to force someone's limbs to move in a certain way when they're fighting you.
                            If the suspect is obviously aggressive AND non-compliant...tasing is justified. If the suspect is some old guy who's obviously nervous and confused AND unarmed...just restrain him physically. He probably won't put up much of a fight. ;)

                            Not to mention the increased risk of the officer getting hurt/killed from the close contact.
                            They signed up for that job knowing the risks. The "what if's" don't justify this kind of force against unarmed and non-aggressive suspects.
                            | | |

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: OK, how a tazer can save/work...

                              Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
                              If the suspect is obviously aggressive AND non-compliant...tasing is justified. If the suspect is some old guy who's obviously nervous and confused AND unarmed...just restrain him physically. He probably won't put up much of a fight. ;)
                              Quite likely. Or you can tell him he won't get his OJ tonight if he doesn't stand still :P. Your post was pretty vague though, and came off as asking why police don't just wrestle everyone who isn't waving a weapon.

                              They signed up for that job knowing the risks. The "what if's" don't justify this kind of force against unarmed and non-aggressive suspects.
                              What about "violently" non-compliant suspects? I don't think many will argue that it's better to tase the guy who's scared and simply won't turn around, but how about some 300-lb guy that wraps himself around his steering wheel and refuses to leave his car? Taser or wrestling, someone's likely to get hurt.

                              I also think that "I know I could get shot in a firefight while chasing armed suspects" is a world different from "I'm going to put myself needlessly at risk despite having a safer alternative". Police shouldn't be required to always take the most risky approach simply because that is what they "signed up for", or because the alternative isn't attractive to some.
                              [squadl]
                              "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X