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  • The Hostage situation in Iraq.

    This may ruffle a few feathers, but hey it's the sandbox. Suffice to say the hostage taking and beheading is way beyond what any sane person could condone as acceptable. I really can't see a way for the victims supporters/families/countries to deal with it without creating more issues down the line. BUT...in a quote from elsewhere...
    What is the world coming to where a man can be kept chained up in a cage in an orange jumpsuit without access to lawyers, not protected by international law and with the possibility of a death sentence....
    I suppose it depends on the hostage takers point of view. Do they really expect the 'Western Regime' to cave in?

  • #2
    Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

    There's a big difference between a criminal and a civilian. The American govt. doesn't kidnap innocent people off the street and cut their heads off while video-taping it. They are specifically targetting non-military targets: that's terrorism. The only thing they are succeeding in is pissing off more and more countries/people.

    PS: I was offered a job in Iraq where I could make damn good money (re)building their network infrastructure. Needless to say I turned it down because I knew how crazy those people are.

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    • #3
      Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

      Originally posted by Benny_
      This may ruffle a few feathers, but hey it's the sandbox. Suffice to say the hostage taking and beheading is way beyond what any sane person could condone as acceptable. I really can't see a way for the victims supporters/families/countries to deal with it without creating more issues down the line. BUT...in a quote from elsewhere...

      What is the world coming to where a man can be kept chained up in a cage in an orange jumpsuit without access to lawyers, not protected by international law and with the possibility of a death sentence....

      I suppose it depends on the hostage takers point of view. Do they really expect the 'Western Regime' to cave in?
      I wasn't going to respond to this because drawing a moral equivalency between the Terrorist beheadings and Abu Graihb, or Guantanamo is just lazy. This is not a case of one man's freedom fighter is another mans rebel. These are foreign terrorists, criminals and baathist holdouts, fighting in a country where they are not welcome by a majority of the native peoples. They have a very clear purpose, they want to shock the general public into withdrawing support for the war. They know they will not win in a fight with our Military. They learned the lesson of Vietnam well (thanks in no small part to John Kerry by the way).

      As far as "what the world is coming to"; give me a break. You don't have to know much history to see that our military and foreign policy is the most gentle, kind and considerate of any Nation in history. I see you smirking out there. You don't have to go back any further than WWII, but if you did you would see summary public execution and torture was fair game and common place. We didn't turn the tide in our occupation in Germany until we went after the Insurgents and made their deaths very public.

      Come to think of it, maybe we could learn something from these insurgents. Imagine the outcry if we rounded up the militant clerics in Iraq and Afghanistan and drowned them in Pigs blood on primetime TV. I'm not proposing it, I'm saying imagine how the tide would turn if we used the same tactics as __________(insert favorite terrorist group here).


      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
      -- H.L. Mencken
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      • #4
        Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

        I tend to agree with Squid's sentiments. While the wheel takes a while to turn, the detainees do have legal representation and none has had his head sawed off.

        With regard to the goals of those holding and killing hostages, I think it's to use the media to deliver their message: see how powerful we are and how the powers-that-be are helpless to stop us? Insurgency 101.

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        • #5
          Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

          It's times like this that our freedom of the press works against us. If they would voluntarily stop broadcasting news of the kidnapping and beheading they could take a huge amount of power away from the terrorists. I realize there is no way in this information age to stop ALL reports but if the US media simply gave them ZERO air time their power of fear would be crippled. The only reason to perform the barbaric acts and video tape them is to put fear in the hearts of the American public and turn them against the war effort. In a way the American news media is a type of accomplice to the whole thing.

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          • #6
            Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

            well they're responding to their market. If we didn't watch they wouldn't show.

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            • #7
              Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

              If we didn't watch they wouldn't show
              Chicken/Egg only we're sort of a captive audience. I don't think anyone would stop watching the news if they pruposefully didn't broadcast news of kidnappings. Also, they have no way of knowing who turns the channel or doesn't tune in so simply not watching would accomplish nothing. No, this is something that the networks COULD decide to do all on their own. Something like
              "In the interest of doing our part to protect Americans travelling abroad we will no longer broadcast any news of kidnappings. We will continue to document those events and will make them available to anyone wishing to be updated but we will no longer assist the terrorists by broadcasting their messages of fear and hate. If we help take their power away perhaps we can also stem the tide of these evil abductions."

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              • #8
                Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                I think Wicker has summed up what I actually think. It's a difficult line, by publicsing the acts surely we are further encouraging the actions. By not publicsing (sp?) are we not hiding ourselves from the grim realities of this life?

                What was the media coverage over there like for the two American hostages? It's pretty much 24/7 here with heart rending pleas and tearful families....

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                • #9
                  Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                  Yeah, why is they choose to report on the bad stuff? I mean, sheesh. Why can't they sweep it under the rug; after all, we declared victory like a YEAR ago now. Obviously there's nothing else to see here.
                  [volun2]
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                  • #10
                    Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                    People like violence and death: the media provides what we want.

                    Point in case: The best selling videos games don't involve a purple dinosaur singing happy songs. They involve headshots and loads of "gibs."

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                    • #11
                      Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                      Originally posted by Pokerface
                      Yeah, why is they choose to report on the bad stuff? I mean, sheesh. Why can't they sweep it under the rug; after all, we declared victory like a YEAR ago now. Obviously there's nothing else to see here.
                      I think reporting the bad stuff(tm) is one thing. Showing the captor videos and the pleas for life are another. I just think (and I may be wrong) that there is no benefit to showing the lot. Surely it just helps the terrorists cause?
                      Last edited by Benny_; 10-01-2004, 08:43 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                        Surely it just helps the terrorists cause
                        It most definitely helps their cause, the whole purpose of their actions is to generate a public outcry. Knowing their abhorant actions were not going to reach their intended audience might make them reconsider their actions. It would be worth trying.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                          It also helps them when nations/corporations give into their demands.

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                          • #14
                            Re: The Hostage situation in Iraq.

                            Originally posted by Benny_
                            I think reporting the bad stuff(tm) is one thing. Showing the captor videos and the pleas for life are another. I just think (and I may be wrong) that there is no benefit to showing the lot. Surely it just helps the terrorists cause?
                            It wouldn't help them so much if the Media also would cover the good news in Iraq (the public might not buy some of Kerry's crap if they could actually see the training of thousands of new Iraqi cops). But that's already been covered here. If it bleeds it leads. I find it ironic though that they refuse to replay much of the suffering on 9/11 (jumpers etc.) because its too graphic. I can't remember the last time I saw any coverage here of a suicide bombing in Israel other than a brief shot of the damage from far away.

                            edit:
                            I think here in the US we aren't getting as much actual video of the hostages on MSM. Certainly they aren't showing the actual beheadings.
                            New to TG?

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