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Fiscal Responsibility

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  • Fiscal Responsibility





    I wonder if we'll ever get any administration in power that will flip those bars around... I'm not too hopeful about the next five years....
    ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
    No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

    <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.


  • #2
    Re: Fiscal Responsibility

    I have never seen this before. It is very suprising.

    Republicans can't even blame a Dem congress for the past 8 years.

    And look at the 2000-2001. What accounts for that? The tax cuts?
    Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
    - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
    - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
    - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
    - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
    - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
    - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fiscal Responsibility

      Is there any statistics to verify the accuracy of that graph?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fiscal Responsibility

        Do a quick search on the good ole' internet. The numbers are accurate.
        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fiscal Responsibility

          Because everything you read on the internet is the truth, lol.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fiscal Responsibility

            They fit with general impressions. Reagan and both Bushes presided over wars combined with tax cuts. Naturally the national debt is going to rise. Idiots really need to learn that more spending + less income = higher debt.
            I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fiscal Responsibility

              Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
              And look at the 2000-2001. What accounts for that? The tax cuts?
              The recession / bursting of the tech bubble. Less economic activity lead to less government receipts. Same goes for '90-91. And the converse for the recession-free Clinton years.

              Of course, no one spends like Mr. Bush, and that doesn't help either!
              A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

              "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                These graphs are interesting, but too far removed from cause and effect to be really useful. Now what I'd like to see is a graph of annual % increase in the budget vs which party controls Congress at the time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                  Ehh I'd believe it even If their was no source for it, wouldnt believe the numbers that are shown but yea.. Bushes have messed up the country budget pretty well.. I love spending tax dollars on foreign wars that we shouldnt be in instead of stopping violent crime or helping the homeless or college funds in our own country. Woohoo!
                  "A Veteran is someone who , at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to
                  'The United states of America' for an amount of 'upto and including my life'. That is honor, and there are way to many people in this country who no longer understand it."-Author Unknown

                  "I got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section" -Any.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                    For one, historic figures, such as the one Our Good Friend Trudeau presents, are a straw man. Inflation, kids.

                    Bush in 2004 in 2004's dollars: 596 Gigglebucks.
                    Reagan in 1984 in 1984's dollars: 252 Gigglebucks.
                    Bush in 2004 in 1984's dollars: 328 Gigglebucks.

                    Yeah, that's still high, but that chart is not comparing fairly if a straight line is sloping upward by 30% over half the length, plus Carter presided over an inflation era, so every bar after his own are going to look larger.


                    For two, where's the money going? I've never looked so this is partly my fault, but I've never seen a figure on how much of this magical debt is owed to US bodies and how much is owed to external bodies. Because internal debt, for example, unpaid bills for 7.62 rounds shipped to the Maries in Iraq, doesn't even count. Yes, it is screwing the ammo manufacturer who doesn't get paid, but let's face it, if the Government buys bullets with tax dollars, those tax dollars come from the bullet manufacturer so it doesn't matter; charge them no tax, and take that amount off the debt clock. It's not like those dollars are worth anything, since we've been playing the fiat charade for over forty years now.


                    The Government is going to do whatever We The People allow it to do, and we allow unlimited defecit spending because we want a number of things to be done. The tax system is, in theory at least, a system to distribute all the costs of all the things all the people want done in a manner that minimises overall whining over who loses more of their Monopoly Money per annum to keep up the appearance of the Government as a client of the peoples' industry.

                    Of course, things become a bit more complicated when foreign dues come into the equation, since there's a big difference from owing yourself money and owing your neighbor money. :D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                      Originally posted by Elwenil View Post
                      Because everything you read on the internet is the truth, lol.

                      Ok, do a quick search in your good ole' library.

                      My point is you really should put a bit, even a tiny bit, of effort into the discussion if you are going to comment. With something like debt numbers it is not that hard to find out if they are correct. This is not some esoteric sub cultural social event we are talking about.


                      And yes, this graph is not the whole story of government spending. But it does kinda kill the "republicans are fiscally responsible" thing. I shows that belief is really marketing hype. Which I believe is the point of the original post.
                      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                        Originally posted by MagnaCentipede View Post
                        For one, historic figures, such as the one Our Good Friend Trudeau presents, are a straw man. Inflation, kids
                        The graph doesn't say this but those are inflation adjusted dollar values. I'm not sure if Trudeau's numbers are from the same source (they probably are), but if they are they're inflation adjusted as well.

                        And yeah, one graph doesn't give a lot of detail on where that debt is allocated and which debts are cleared at the end of every year etc. Undeniably though, this graph illustrates the growth of our national debt has been greater under republican presidents.
                        ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
                        No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

                        <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                          Both parties spend - this graph would probably look somewhat more even if Bush Jr.'s administration wasn't included. Between the tax cuts and defense spending, this administration has been off the charts - no pun intended.

                          What's more important is how this money is being spent. Look at the core values of the two major parties - where do their loyalties lie? It says a lot about the Republican party that they advertise untruths like fiscal and moral responsibility.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                            Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                            What's more important is how this money is being spent. Look at the core values of the two major parties - where do their loyalties lie? It says a lot about the Republican party that they advertise untruths like fiscal and moral responsibility.
                            Yeah, but democrats are just trying to buy constituent votes. Republicans just spend all that money in other places so Democrats don't blow it all on huge social programs that voters want but don't need. :icon_roll

                            Regardless, neither party has had my interests in mind. And by my I'm implying "our." ;)
                            ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
                            No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

                            <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fiscal Responsibility

                              Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                              Both parties spend - this graph would probably look somewhat more even if Bush Jr.'s administration wasn't included. Between the tax cuts and defense spending, this administration has been off the charts - no pun intended.

                              What's more important is how this money is being spent. Look at the core values of the two major parties - where do their loyalties lie? It says a lot about the Republican party that they advertise untruths like fiscal and moral responsibility.
                              You use the words "tax cut" and "spending" interchangeably in your post, which means you either think all of my money belongs to the government, or that if you keep saying it people will start to believe it should be.

                              Either way, keep your totalitarian hands out of my wallet.
                              ---
                              Sources say the Dow Jones' decline is directly related to Dethklok front-man Nathan Explosion's constant deleting of potential new albums.

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