Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

    I've been reading a few articles(Norwegian), speculating whether there is more to surging oil prices than meets the eye.

    Are we looking at an economic attack specifically targeted against the US economy?
    Iran and Venezuela has formed an alliance and it seems they are doing everything in their power to strike against Bush and the US economy.
    Iran is backing Iraq's Oil minister Sharistani and Sharistani has been stalling the process of getting legislation in place in order to start exporting a short-term potential of 1 million barrels of oil per day. 5-6 million barrels a day should be achievable on a longer perspective.
    Preventing oil from getting on the market hits the US especially hard as it currently consumes apprx. 25% of the worlds produced oil.
    Chavez has denied exporting more oil to the US so this adds to the situation.

    Perhaps, this is pure speculation, or maybe we are looking at a very effective piece of economic warfare?
    --
    VI VI VI - the number of the beast

  • #2
    Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

    Just to fuel the discussion: US OIL imports per Country

    «Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in April, exporting 2.534 million barrels per day to the United States, which is a decrease from last month (2.542 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Saudi Arabia with 1.462 million barrels per day.»


    DB

    «That looks like a really nice house except for that horrible bathroom.» Donrhos

    | |





    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

      Panzer, I believe you have answered your own question. The US consumes only 25% of the world's oil. The US is also extremely rich. People here can afford higher oil/commodity prices. But people in Mexico, China, Eastern Europe, India? Not so much. If it's a plan to destroy the US economy, it's horribly inefficient.

      Of course the primary losers from that scenario are Iran and Venezuela, who are passing up the opportunity to pull in money by limiting their output. The biggest winners are the oil producing nations which continue to pump at full speed - here is a list of the top ten by production:

      (Millions of barrels of oil per day)
      Saudi Arabia --- 10.9
      Russia --- 9.7
      United States --- 5.4
      Iran --- 4.259
      China --- 3.8
      Mexico --- 3.791
      Canada --- 3.3
      Norway --- 3.1
      United Kingdom --- 2.9
      Venezuela --- 2.855

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_o..._oil_by_nation


      Edit: Kero's correct, I read the second chart backwards. It's removed.
      Last edited by Nikolas; 06-30-2008, 01:00 PM.
      A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

      "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

        Tybalt, I think you're reading that chart backwards. The EU has more economic activity per barrel than the US, therefore the US spends a greater percentage of its economic activity on oil. We still come out slightly ahead of the world average, but thats because oil costs make up a huge portion of the budgets of developing countries.

        @Panzer -- it may well be an economic attack, but there is no way to call it "specifically targetted against the US". This type of economic attack damages the entire world simultaneously, helping only those countries that continue to export oil without participating in the attack while hurting the participant exporters as well as all importers. And long term it hurts all exporters by encouraging fundamental shifts in the economies of importing nations to reduce their reliance on imports. So if its an attack, its a remarkably inefficient one.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

          There's a word for using targeted economic weapons - sanctions. We're not seeing sanctions, we're seeing market controls, adjustments and preservations - things that affect all consumers of the product. Any overt maneuvers by oil-rich nations is an effort to preserve if not increase the overwhelming dependence on oil, thereby preserving their main source of income. The last thing Venezuela or Iran wants to see is a sharp decline in oil demand, they are simply trying to see how far they can keep riding this wave without making it crumble.

          Where are all the pundits proclaiming green energy as a yet another way of fighting the terrorists?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

            I'm thinking more along the lines that this is self inflicted. Or rather, designed to bring down the world economy so that certain pieces of it can be replaced by something else. It is.. most likely.. designed to consolidate power and also drive people further and further into the field of consciousness that is more apt to rebel or give credence to the various government's preparations to incarcerate anyone and everyone that fits the broad profile of a terrorist. Even people who decide to loot stores to get food because of the cost.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

              In this "economic attack" theory, let's not forget that the price of oil is rising more in countries that use the US Dollar than in countries that are on other standards. The dollar could fall and the price of oil could rise, but the cost of a barrel of oil to an Englishman stays the same.
              Become a supporting member!
              Buy a Tactical Duck!
              Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
              TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                Originally posted by CingularDuality View Post
                In this "economic attack" theory, let's not forget that the price of oil is rising more in countries that use the US Dollar than in countries that are on other standards.
                But if the US Dollar rises, the opposite is true.
                A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                  uncle sam needs to turn the money printing press off... the euro was introduced in this decade (1/1/02) and was 1:1 with the US dollar... and now its 1.6:1........

                  (seriously:) we should switch to the euro
                  powered by Windows 7

                  . . . .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                    The Euro was never intended to be at 1:1 to the Dollar. It jumped to like 1.22:1 within a few months of release, and stayed around there pretty consistently for some time.

                    Now, 1.60 is still a significant step up from 1.22, but that's a fairly recent development that could easily reverse now that the EU has turned its printing presses up higher than ours over here.

                    (edit -- does a little research to back up position)

                    Jan 06 -- 1.18:1
                    Jan 07 -- 1.31:1
                    Jan 08 -- 1.45:1
                    Today -- 1.58:1

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                      Isn't the dollar the benchmark used to set oil prices? (meaning they want to be paid in either dollars or the equivelent amount of another country's currency.)

                      Therefore isn't any rise in prices is typically the result of the value of the dollar going down? The oil producers still want to get paid the same amount for each barrel, but it just so happens our dollar isnt worth the same it was a few years ago. I'm sure that's an oversimplification of the situation, but how close to accuriate is it?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                        --Not all oil is sold in Dollars, but since we in the US always buy our oil in Dollars, thats a minor distinction for us.

                        --Yes, the value of the Dollar has fallen over the last year or two, and there has been a corresponding increase in the number of Dollars needed to buy the same amount of Oil. However, this accounts for only a small portion of the overall increase in Oil costs. The Dollar is worth maybe 3/4 of what it was 5 years ago, while Oil has risen to 4 times its previous price. The rest of the increase comes from good old fashioned supply and demand.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                          Originally posted by Morganan View Post
                          Isn't the dollar the benchmark used to set oil prices? (meaning they want to be paid in either dollars or the equivelent amount of another country's currency.)

                          Therefore isn't any rise in prices is typically the result of the value of the dollar going down? The oil producers still want to get paid the same amount for each barrel, but it just so happens our dollar isnt worth the same it was a few years ago. I'm sure that's an oversimplification of the situation, but how close to accuriate is it?
                          The Euro is the benchmark for oil prices now.

                          Do some research (academic, not Fox News) yourself if you don't want to believe me, but, oil prices are being artificially raised by speculators on Wall Street, oil refining capacity in the US, rising global demand for energy, and slightly because of the value of the US dollar compared to the Euro. The value of the US dollar has the least to do with current oil prices.

                          Saudi Arabia could ship millions of extra barrels of crude to the US tomorrow, and it would not change the price of gas at the pump, because the US cannot refine it into gas. Why? Because the major oil companies intentionally shut down less profitable refineries in the 1990's, in order to tighten their control on supply. Before this, and before Wall Street took to commodity investing, OPEC did actually used to be the biggest influence on gas prices in the US, but that is no longer what is happening.

                          Anyone who tries to tell you that the supply of crude from OPEC nations is to blame for high gas prices is either a liar or extremely uninformed. And this is not simply a supply and demand issue. The supply of refined crude has been intentionally reduced in the US so that American oil companies can maximize their profits, which as we all know has worked very well for them, and for the investing class.

                          Or you could just say, "It's Bush's fault." That is basically correct as well, and takes less explanation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                            GW, you're confusing oil prices with gas prices. Yes, gas prices are really high, and yes, refining capacity is involved in that, but crude oil prices are really damned high as well and that has nothing whatsoever to do with refining capacity. Crude Oil costs four times as much on the world market today as it did 5 years ago, and if you can find a way to blame that on lack of US Refining capacity, then more power to you man.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Surging oilprices, a covert operation against US economy?

                              Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                              GW, you're confusing oil prices with gas prices. Yes, gas prices are really high, and yes, refining capacity is involved in that, but crude oil prices are really damned high as well and that has nothing whatsoever to do with refining capacity. Crude Oil costs four times as much on the world market today as it did 5 years ago, and if you can find a way to blame that on lack of US Refining capacity, then more power to you man.
                              I'm not confusing oil prices with gas prices. If I get ambitious I'll provide some reading material for this thread.
                              Last edited by GlobalWarmin; 07-01-2008, 03:46 PM.

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X