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  • Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

    The U.S. Senate passed the FISA Amendments Act granting retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies that participated in the president's illegal domestic wiretapping program. This is the last major hurdle for this bill.

    I can't believe nobody has yet posted about this. I am incensed. This whole thing is a blatant undermining of the concept of checks and balances that is build into our government for very good reason.

    The president rips the constitution to shreds when he started wiretapping, gives no information about what was actually done, yet still declares it legal. It's the congress' job to keep the executive in check, but instead of starting an investigation, they do nothing. So groups of private citizens go to the third branch of government and start suing the telecommunications companies to give them a slap on the wrist for going along with this and to find out what really transpired. This law now prevents the judicial branch from doing the job the legislative wouldn't.

    This this a gutting of American freedoms. It is a major step toward a "big brother" style government. How can any senator or representative support this? Why do people seem not to care?

    bkelly

  • #2
    Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

    I see both sides.

    I think that this whole thing was done poorly, but I don't think suing the company FOR MONEY is a good move. If they think they are working WITH the government and doing what they should, they shouldn't be sued for money.

    Suing them for information about what transpired, I don't have a problem with it.
    "Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
    Good luck getting rid of your disease. If you're infected, though, stay away--I can't afford to be a zombie right now.
    " Ednos


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    • #3
      Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

      I'm more concerned that the bill allows for direct hardline data taps from the telecoms and blanket fishing without a declared target. These are things that were expressly illegal to prevent government abuse. By ANY administration.
      In game handle: Steel Scion
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      • #4
        Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

        Originally posted by Skylark View Post
        I see both sides.
        What's the other side?

        Originally posted by Skylark
        I think that this whole thing was done poorly, but I don't think suing the company FOR MONEY is a good move. If they think they are working WITH the government and doing what they should, they shouldn't be sued for money.
        If the telecommunication companies are "doing what they should", there there is no chance they would lose any money, right?

        bkelly

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        • #5
          Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

          It's completely outrageous IMO. I'm more than a little disappointed that Senator Obama signed his name to this bill.
          | | |

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          • #6
            Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

            If the government demands that a Telecom assist it in an investigation that later proves to be unlawful, it doesn't make any sense to me that you should be able to sue the Telecom. That places the company in an untenable situation, where they can neither comply with government requests nor reject them without placing themselves in danger. However, that doesn't mean that there is no recourse -- it just seems that the proper recourse ought to be suing the government agency which demanded the wiretap instead of suing the Telecom.

            I haven't read the bill in question, is it still possible to sue the gov't for illegal wiretaps?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

              We should be able to sue the telecom for violating our rights. The telecom doesn't need to assist the gov't with every investigation.

              This is out-****ing-rageous.
              A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

              "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                If the government demands that a Telecom assist it in an investigation that later proves to be unlawful, it doesn't make any sense to me that you should be able to sue the Telecom. That places the company in an untenable situation, where they can neither comply with government requests nor reject them without placing themselves in danger.
                Not at all. There are well documented, legal means for the government to obtain information on citizens. It's called a warrant and with it, wiretapping is legal.

                In this case, the NSA, under directives from the Bush administration, went to the major telecom companies and demanded to place these wiretaps without obtaining warrants. It was obviously illegal from the start, yet most went along anyway.

                BTW, only Qwest refused the NSA because they didn't have the proper documentation.

                Originally posted by Kerostasis
                I haven't read the bill in question, is it still possible to sue the gov't for illegal wiretaps?
                It is difficult. Here's a case of an Islamic foundation suing the NSA for wiretapping it's phones, but the Bush administration keeps slapping a "state secrets privilege" on major pieces of evidence. How do you prove that you are being wiretapped when strong evidence you discover is immediately declared "top secret"?

                bkelly

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                • #9
                  Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                  Didn't one telecom, Quest I think, say no to the governments requests?
                  Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                  - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                  - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                  - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                  - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                  - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                  - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                  • #10
                    Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                    I'm mildly disappointed in the bill and Obama's support for the current version of it, but I don't think it's such a big issue w.r.t. the other immediate problems facing the nation.

                    I don't trust the MSM's spin on these things, and I haven't read the bill yet, so I haven't quite justified and solidified my position on it yet.



                    TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                      Originally posted by bkelly View Post
                      The U.S. Senate passed the FISA Amendments Act granting retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies that participated in the president's illegal domestic wiretapping program. This is the last major hurdle for this bill.

                      I can't believe nobody has yet posted about this. I am incensed. This whole thing is a blatant undermining of the concept of checks and balances that is build into our government for very good reason.

                      The president rips the constitution to shreds when he started wiretapping, gives no information about what was actually done, yet still declares it legal. It's the congress' job to keep the executive in check, but instead of starting an investigation, they do nothing. So groups of private citizens go to the third branch of government and start suing the telecommunications companies to give them a slap on the wrist for going along with this and to find out what really transpired. This law now prevents the judicial branch from doing the job the legislative wouldn't.

                      This this a gutting of American freedoms. It is a major step toward a "big brother" style government. How can any senator or representative support this? Why do people seem not to care?

                      bkelly
                      As my dad says "if you keep your nose clean you have nothing to worry about" AKA, i won't effect you if you are doing the right things.

                      I work in the VOIP telecom industry and let me tell you, wiretapping a VOIP phone line is hundreds of times tougher than tapping a regular phone line. I hope it extends US Agencies jursdictions to other nations etc, because lets face it lots of the hackers who are spamming email boxes/launching botnet attacks are not happening within the US.

                      I don't really understand how it is "gutting american freedoms." Lots of people have been convicted due to wire taps, and in this day and age where many things are coordinated on cell phones, it can only help.

                      Don't blame the white house on this either......because as you stated congress did nothing, it is what it is, I am perturbed about how CALEA hasn't been implemented yet, or how Verizon has the right to take out the copper wiring of phone lines if you install FIOS, that kind of this pisses me off.
                      Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                      Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                      Level I HazMat Technician
                      NYS EMT-B
                      Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                      sigpic




                      Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                      RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                      Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                      Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                      We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

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                      • #12
                        Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                        Originally posted by Delta*RandyShugart* View Post
                        As my dad says "if you keep your nose clean you have nothing to worry about" AKA, i won't effect you if you are doing the right things.

                        I work in the VOIP telecom industry and let me tell you, wiretapping a VOIP phone line is hundreds of times tougher than tapping a regular phone line. I hope it extends US Agencies jursdictions to other nations etc, because lets face it lots of the hackers who are spamming email boxes/launching botnet attacks are not happening within the US.

                        I don't really understand how it is "gutting american freedoms." Lots of people have been convicted due to wire taps, and in this day and age where many things are coordinated on cell phones, it can only help.

                        Don't blame the white house on this either......because as you stated congress did nothing, it is what it is, I am perturbed about how CALEA hasn't been implemented yet, or how Verizon has the right to take out the copper wiring of phone lines if you install FIOS, that kind of this pisses me off.
                        Ahhh, you are one of those groupies. "Just do what you are told and there won't be any problems."

                        I don't want to do what I am told. I want to do what I believe. To do what is right. And I don't want, nor do I need, some loser in Washington watching over me. If you want or need that loser watching over you that is your sad problem.

                        And that says nothing of the fact that it is so against what this entire country is founded on. The revolutionaries didn't do what they where told. Did they? Did they keep their noses clean?

                        Nope and nope.
                        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                          I also work for a company that is developing software that will enable wiretapping on VOIP possible, so i can't really disagree with a product i am promoting and that will be able to be put into effect and when in doubt a flag will come up on that person(s) name it will be directed to the proper authorities. So yes, it can be used wrongly just like any other bill can, but it also can be used for the common good, which is what i support.

                          I don't agree fully with what power's telecom companies have, trust me i am not a real fan of Verizon for one, but it is what it is, i would love to buy out verizon and use it for the common good, but right now i don't have a few billion dollars to throw around and until i do, i will keep saving money, and telling them that i won't be forced into a 2 year contract.

                          Yes the revolutionaries didn't because they were being held under tyrannical rule. But last time i checked we are ruled by a tyrannical form of government.
                          Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                          Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                          Level I HazMat Technician
                          NYS EMT-B
                          Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                          sigpic




                          Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                          RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                          Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                          Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                          We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                            I feel like I'm in the dark here, since I don't see it as a big deal. If some crazy guy was going to blow up a building, and he uses a phone in the process and the government hears him an stops him, isn't that good? Cause if it was your family in the building that got blown up, you would be yelling at the government to do more.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Telecom Immunity Bill Passed

                              Originally posted by Delta*RandyShugart* View Post
                              I also work for a company that is developing software that will enable wiretapping on VOIP possible, so i can't really disagree with a product i am promoting and that will be able to be put into effect and when in doubt a flag will come up on that person(s) name it will be directed to the proper authorities. So yes, it can be used wrongly just like any other bill can, but it also can be used for the common good, which is what i support.

                              I don't agree fully with what power's telecom companies have, trust me i am not a real fan of Verizon for one, but it is what it is, i would love to buy out verizon and use it for the common good, but right now i don't have a few billion dollars to throw around and until i do, i will keep saving money, and telling them that i won't be forced into a 2 year contract.

                              Yes the revolutionaries didn't because they were being held under tyrannical rule. But last time i checked we are ruled by a tyrannical form of government.
                              "Tyrannical rule" is very subjective. Many of the colonists thought what Britain demanded was reasonable and thought the revolutionaries where idiots trying to get away with breaking the law.

                              If you look it wasn't that bad, really. It wasn't like British soldiers where going about beheading people because they smiled funny or called the King a putz.
                              Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                              - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                              - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                              - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                              - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                              - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                              - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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