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  • Illegal alien murderers

    "Long story short, a career criminal, gang banger, and illegal alien that was suppose to be deported for excessive felonies a few years ago..."

    Clearly he came here looking for a better life.

    Since when does an illegal alien become "supposed to be" deported for "excessive" felonies? Entering illegally is a federal crime. Whenever an illegal alien is identified, he should be deported within 24 hours to the middle of international waters, preferably Atlantic since there are fewer islands to swim to, and given an opportunity for a better life as plankton.

  • #2
    Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

    Originally posted by MagnaCentipede View Post
    Since when does an illegal alien become "supposed to be" deported for "excessive" felonies? Entering illegally is a federal crime. Whenever an illegal alien is identified, he should be deported within 24 hours to the middle of international waters, preferably Atlantic since there are fewer islands to swim to, and given an opportunity for a better life as plankton.
    It's mostly due to the painful logistics involved in try to apprehend and deport the millions of illegals in our country. Not every illegal in this country is a hardened criminal (outside the crime of entering our country illegally), unfortunately...many of them are. The story of Compean and Ramos comes to mind. Too much bureaucratic red tape.
    | | |

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    • #3
      Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

      Hardness has nothing to do with it. If you pick one up and he's illegal, you put him in holding with his ilk, fill a prison bus, roll them to a cargo plane, fly over some of that shiny blue salt water, open the door, and bring the nose up until the cargo hold is empty. Problem solved.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

        Originally posted by MagnaCentipede View Post
        Hardness has nothing to do with it. If you pick one up and he's illegal, you put him in holding with his ilk, fill a prison bus, roll them to a cargo plane, fly over some of that shiny blue salt water, open the door, and bring the nose up until the cargo hold is empty. Problem solved.
        You just condemned my wife to drowning. She was illegal for a month or so.

        Feel good about yourself?
        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

          It isn't easy to be tough and the first step to objectivity is to completely disregard any emotion or bias. Meanwhile, the problem is rooted in the people who wanted to feel good about themselves and wanted to be compassionate and failed to enforce the immigration laws outright. If the laws were enforced properly there wouldn't be an immigration problem. There would be illegal immigrants, but they would be in numbers that can be handled through more lets-say-compassionate means. They would be led down a path that leads to the melting pot, not to a niche subculture of crime.

          But instead, we have one of the few good cops enjoying a closed-casket funeral because an illegal who wasn't deported + criminal who wasn't either executed or properly reformed + a culture of violence that has not been delt with using tough measures decided to "go out Miami style."

          Miami style? Is that Miami, Oklahoma? I don't think so.

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          • #6
            Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

            Originally posted by MagnaCentipede View Post
            It isn't easy to be tough and the first step to objectivity is to completely disregard any emotion or bias. Meanwhile, the problem is rooted in the people who wanted to feel good about themselves and wanted to be compassionate and failed to enforce the immigration laws outright. If the laws were enforced properly there wouldn't be an immigration problem. There would be illegal immigrants, but they would be in numbers that can be handled through more lets-say-compassionate means.

            But instead, we have one of the few good cops enjoying a closed-casket funeral because an illegal who wasn't deported + criminal who wasn't either executed or properly reformed + a culture of voilence that has not been delt with using tough measures decided to "go out Miami style."

            Miami style? Is that Miami, Oklahoma? I don't think so.
            So because the problem is big and caused primarily by upstanding business members you advocate killing millions of people? Wow.

            As far as the policeman's death it is only the "illegal immigrant" part that was a problem? It had nothing to do with the "a career criminal, gang banger" part?

            In fact the "illegal immigrant" part had absolutely nothing to do with the mans death. But that is what you focused on. It is those people that you suggested mass drownings for.

            Not only that, you used a mans death to bolster your own political view. You seemed almost giddy at the opportunity that it presented.

            Nice. Real nice.

            As far as not getting emotional? Sorry, I get emotional when somebody suggests killing my wife and other members of my family, even if in jest. I hear that crap all the time here in redneck, racist, hyper-nationalistic land. My mother in law, a US citizen, is afraid to go to the store by herself because of people like you. Both her and my wife are afraid for my 4 year old sons safety because of statements such as yours. I have to say that I would be very reluctant to allow my children to be around you. They hear terms like "I don't care if they where born here, they are still illegal in my book and don't deserve to be here."

            What do you call it when you suggest killing people simply because they are from another country? Put yourself in their position for even a second. Imagine what you would think if you decided, for whatever reason, to move to another country and heard people like you speak.

            You are simply wrong.
            Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 08-01-2008, 07:07 PM.
            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

              I advocate an effective deportation program. What we have right now is clearly not 1) working, 2) discouraging further illegal immigration.

              You quoted where I listed all three components, did you not read before you hit quote? If so, you are disqualifying yourself from this discussion on the basis of responding without forethought.

              Sure it did. If illegal immigration were under control, that murderer would not have been waiting for his free frag before going out Miami style. He should've been deported however YOU see fit (on the condition he never gets back in) when he was on his first day of his "career." And if he wasn't an immigrant he still should've been delt with in an appropriate (read: will not commit further crimes such as murder) manner.

              Giddy? Did I leave little giggles in the spaces between words? Now you are projecting a stereotypical mental image you have in your head onto a forum post.

              Funny, I hear there are certain places where white people who were born in America are afraid to go, too. Sounds like there is a problem with a lack of cultural homogeneity.

              "I don't care if they where born here, they are still illegal in my book and don't deserve to be here."
              That's not my position on that issue. Born here, the kid can stay and go into a foster home. The parents, however, are criminals in violation of federal laws. And we're not talking about copyright infringement or the California state/fed pot debate. This is about border, population, social harmony, financial and economic programs, and US citizens feeling safe about buying milk at the fuel station.

              "What do you call it when you suggest killing people simply because they are from another country? "
              WRONG. You stop right there. I will not be straw-manned. I suggest 1) Illegal immigration is a problem, 2) it is not being delt with appropriately, 3) immigration law must provide penalties that discourage the illegal behavior. We know from capture records that deportees tend to come right back in. Yes, my invention of, let's call it Operation Salt Bath for the sake of being succinct, is extreme, but I have a strong feeling that if illegally immigrating to the US would put you 3,000 miles from shore, there would be a decrease in illegal immigration. Personally, I would rather it didn't come to that, but you know what? If I have to choose between Officer Widman and Miami Style, guess who I would rather not-be shot in the face. And look at the result? The criminal is still dead. He's dead and gone and the only difference between him being deported effectively, being dropped into the sea, or what actually happened is in what actually happened, a career's worth of crimes were inflicted upon the innocent, with the most noteworthy being a human being with good intentions was executed at his job.

              Put yourself in their position for even a second and immidiately [sic] you are not being objective. If you are not being objective, you are biased.

              "You are simply wrong."
              We're both wrong. The sandbox is about everyone being wrong individually so over-all we can find the least-wrong standpoint and declare it "right," at least for now. That's known as "wisdom of crowds," and it's a central-tendency effect.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

                What straw man.

                You said, and I quote:

                "Hardness has nothing to do with it. If you pick one up and he's illegal, you put him in holding with his ilk, fill a prison bus, roll them to a cargo plane, fly over some of that shiny blue salt water, open the door, and bring the nose up until the cargo hold is empty. Problem solved."

                You advocated dropping people from an aircraft into the ocean. You think any would live from that? You think you are being noble because you don't put the bullet directly in their brain?

                And after somebody points out how wrongheaded the statement is you don't even try to appologize. You instead call it a bit harsh? WTF?

                How are you being any different from the likes of those that carry out "ethnic cleansing"? Because you do not use skin color or religion to determine who dies? Because you use nationality to make the decision it is somehow better?

                I guess you only dream about killing millions, they actually did it. How noble of you.
                Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

                  Hmm... well, maybe dropping them off into the middle of the ocean would be more cost-effective than placing them before a firing squad? Muahahaha.


                  In any case, this seems to be an odd place to debate such things. Let's keep arguments out of memorial threads. He seemed to be a great cop. What a shame.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

                    I couldn't agree with gringo more (though judging by recent events that wont help his case much) If you really want to stop illegal immigration you need to SECURE THE BOARDERS . George bush keeps talking about securing the boarders and yet hes sending boarder patrolling national guard troops to Iraq to secure Iraqs boarder. There is something wrong here.

                    If illegals pay taxes and learn English then they are more then welcome by my standards. If the federal government really wanted to they could stop or at least severley curtail Illegal immigration and yet they dont.
                    Centapede's statements are quit possibly some of the most xenophobic and ignorant statement I have ever heard. I suggest that we use centapede to test the bus into water idea to see if he can get back. If hes willing to volunteer for the sake of "his" country then I will be willing to consider it.
                    "In general, our generals were outgeneralled"
                    -John Adams
                    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
                    -Charles Beard

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

                      Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                      You just condemned my wife to drowning. She was illegal for a month or so.
                      Why was she illegal for a month?
                      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                      • #12
                        re: Illegal alien murderers

                        Sigh...
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                        • #13
                          Re: Illegal alien murderers

                          Thanks for moving this.
                          | | |

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: in memory of... Ofc. Andrew Widman

                            Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                            Why was she illegal for a month?
                            ICE lost her paperwork and our lawyer (we) screwed up and didn't file some paperwork indicating that this happened. As far as the government was concerned she never applied and had been in the country illegally for over a year. Eventually another lawyer sued the government to correct the situation. She could have been deported during this time if a judge would have deemed it appropriate.

                            My problem with the guys post had nothing to do with his position on immigration, legal or otherwise. It is with the tendency of some to treat groups of people as less than human. To degrade them to the point where mass murder seems funny. To associate the killing of a cop primarily with the immigration status. It is what you do when you want to dehumanize a group of people. And it works pretty well.

                            Did what happen in Rwanda just blossom out of thin air? No, it took years and years of hate and degrading talk making the other side look like they where less than human. At some point chopping up little kids just didn't seem that bad because they where the "others".

                            I don't think what happened in Rwanda could happen in America.

                            But I do know for a fact that some on that political side of the spectrum degrade groups of people to accomplish their goals. They have told me that they do this to, hopefully, make others not care what happens to these people. They also work to get others to use the same kind of degrading language and tactics. Some of these "anti illegal immigrant patriots" are simply racists using the issue to attack brown people.

                            And if this was a single incident it probably would not have set me off. But it is, at least where I live, becoming common. There are those where I live want to stop every Hispanic and check their papers. They see absolutely nothing wrong with this. When you try to discuss the issue with them all they can do is cite incidents like the cop killing and how their dear nephew Billy Bob couldn't get the construction job. (What they fail to mention is that Billy Bob refused to work on weekends, had problems coming into work on time and has a pretty big meth problem.)

                            Was the poster I was arguing with think these thoughts? Is he a racist? I don't know. Can't say one way or another. But he does talk their talk. He at least should realize that he sounds like the racists I know all too well.

                            And Cing, yea it sucks that this is being rehashed again. But know what sucks even more? To hear some idiot say your son and wife should go back Mexico where they belong. Or that they should stop speaking gibberish and speak "American". Or that they should be strapped to an inner-tube and floated back to where they came from. I am just sick and tired of it.

                            @Chris

                            The illegal immigration issue is a problem. Stronger borders will have little effect. You have to understand how it works. I have been surprised myself over the years as I get to know people. Many, and all that I know, actually enter legally. They come over on work or even vistor visas. Then they stay longer than they should. Sometimes it is because the employer asks them if they can work a few more weeks. Or the relative they are visiting gets sick and they stay to help. Or they meet somebody and fall in love. All kinds of reasons. Then the weeks turn into months and then a child is born and it just goes from there.

                            You also need to realize that many go back to their home country on a pretty regular basis. They then come back legally and start the process over again.

                            The truth of it all is that these people do what humans are designed to do. Migrate to better places. It is why humans are in every nook and cranny of the world. It is what our species does.

                            The problem is, truly, a paper one. It could be easily solved simply by giving these people some choices without tons of very confusing paper work and a run around at the immigration office. I know some people that qualify for citizenship and simply gave up. It was easier and much cheaper to live illegally.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Illegal alien murderers

                              Magna, why does a criminal who's a citizen get a pass, so to speak, compared to one who isn't? If anything the citizen should receive a greater punishment for actually betraying the society that they voluntarily joined.
                              I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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