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  • How dumb is Ford?

    Now I understand why the big 3 keep failing. They make dumb decisions like this. They are offering Europeans a diesel Ford Fiesta that gets 65 mpg, but won't offer it to Americans. Why? Because, they think US consumers won't want it. How stupid are they???!!!

    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ell-in-us.aspx
    "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

  • #2
    Re: How dumb is Ford?

    I know this!!! I know the answer!!! Call me! Call me!

    OK. Ford is very stupid?

    Did I get it?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How dumb is Ford?

      If anyone bothers to read the article, one will find that there are many more reasons beyond "they think US consumers won't want it".

      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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      • #4
        Re: How dumb is Ford?

        Originally posted by Tempus View Post
        If anyone bothers to read the article, one will find that there are many more reasons beyond "they think US consumers won't want it".
        Yes, but lets face it the big three have not shown too many good ideas lately. Many people are starting to doubt their survivability. I will give them some credit it looks like they did their homework on the subject. YET I say they need to review it again. Two years ago when I was car shopping I looked at the VW GTI diesel model. There was a three month waiting list just to buy one. People wanted the +50mpg fuel.

        ~ Draken

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        • #5
          Re: How dumb is Ford?

          That's a pretty ignorant article saying that we aren't "interested" somehow or they don't think we'll buy them.

          But here's the key paragraph in the article:

          First of all, the engines are built in Britain, so labor costs are high. Plus the pound remains stronger than the greenback. At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the United States.

          By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000.

          A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic.

          Ford plans to make a gas-powered version of the Fiesta in Mexico for the United States. So why not manufacture diesel engines there, too?

          Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves. Besides, the automaker would have to produce at least 350,000 engines a year to make such a venture profitable.

          "We just don't think North and South America would buy that many diesel cars," Fields says.
          It's not that hard to understand, really. It's all about bean counters, and if Ford can't afford it, Ford can't afford it. It needs to sell more volume/profit non-truck vehicles like the Focus and Fusion. It's also going to try to fill the [profit] gap with the F-100.

          Aside from bean counting:

          - A turbocharged diesel hybrid engine would not only be far more efficient than it's gasoline counterpart, but would also require less maintenance and has fewer parts than it's comparative petrol.

          - An ECOboost (gasoline turbo-4) Fusion is in the works, for 2011/12

          - An ECOboost Focus may happen, especially when the Euro Focus beging being sold here in the next year or two (which should have happened in the first place, not that "redesigned" turd we got)

          That's all. It's just cost, and the fact that our dollar is nothing more than a pillow to set a Euro on.

          Lastly, I disagree with them. I think if they were good enough, and got good enough reviews, they WOULD sell 350,000 units by the end of the current model cycle of the Fiesta. If they sold an ECOnetic in the Focus of a somewhat larger displacement (1.8-2.0L), then sure as sunshine they would sell the units. If they sold an ECOnetic 2.2L in the Focus AND the Fusion, or better yet, as a Hybrid-Diesel... then they wouldn't be able to keep those cars on the lots.

          Especially considering the Euro Focus is a HOT car, and the Fusion is pretty well designed too.
          "But way back where I come from, we never mean to bother. We don't like to make our passions other peoples' concern." -Dar Williams
          Former Captain of the 55th Infantry Division

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          • #6
            Re: How dumb is Ford?

            Ford would love to sell a car like this in the states, but it comes down to the diesel issue. They aren't stupid. Did you even read the article you linked??
            "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
            He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

            - Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

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            • #7
              Re: How dumb is Ford?

              So Does it really come down to cutting federal taxes on Diesel fuel? I mean that would help spur on the the Diesel car market a bit AND help the commercial trucker's get the product (aka..FOOD and Big Screen TV's!) to the store more cheaper.


              I don't understand the Logic of ... "Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves"..... So really what the company burns through in a week and a half could buy a new engine plant that would allow them to Create a Popular and eventually profitable product..?

              Nothing ventured nothing gained..eh?
              |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
              ..now where did I put my keys?

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              • #8
                Re: How dumb is Ford?

                My bet is that this car achieves its high MPG by 1. not adhering to certain EPA or CA standards; 2. Not adhering to safety standards such that the plaintiffs' bar would crush Ford is they sold the vehicle in the USA.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How dumb is Ford?

                  Originally posted by Tempus View Post
                  If anyone bothers to read the article, one will find that there are many more reasons beyond "they think US consumers won't want it".
                  Much more fun to speculate, but thanks! :D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How dumb is Ford?

                    Originally posted by peardog View Post
                    So Does it really come down to cutting federal taxes on Diesel fuel? I mean that would help spur on the the Diesel car market a bit AND help the commercial trucker's get the product (aka..FOOD and Big Screen TV's!) to the store more cheaper.


                    I don't understand the Logic of ... "Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves"..... So really what the company burns through in a week and a half could buy a new engine plant that would allow them to Create a Popular and eventually profitable product..?

                    Nothing ventured nothing gained..eh?
                    Well, the logistics of that may be a bit more complex.... granted building a new plant in Michigan would be great for the economy and all, but I doubt it would be built in Michigan.

                    The plant would have to produce more than just engines, to remain efficient and profitable. The reason they need to build another plant, is because apparently none of the other plants have the room or ability to be re-tooled, or the cost would somehow be greater to retro-fit. Mind you, a number of these plants are older buildings. There may not be enough demand right now, or perceived future demand, to open up the plant. Especially when plants are or have been, idled or shut down. The idled plants are already tooled for specific things, so they would have to be modified. Which again, could POSSIBLY be of greater cost than building a new plant. But what happens if that modified plant needs to ramp up production on the updated product cycle that it makes? A truck plant may be idled, and it may be tooled to make smaller trucks... but may not be the proper design area for tooling and building cars. If they build another plant, that's another building they have to pay "rent" on while other buildings are idled. At that point, the public and the idled factory workers won't be so happy... assuaged only if they can travel to those plants and work them as part of a transfer. So then we're looking into lodging for them, or relocation costs for those workers and their families...

                    The cost of the plant is more than "building the plant". You need to staff the plant, you need to train the workers, you need to assign the plant new codes and such in accounting, you need to have metrics measured against it on a regular basis, logistics and material transport would have to be re-routed and modified, suppliers need to be found, supply chain established, etc.

                    Above all, I'm sure the Michigan govt. would be more than happy to help out and subsidize some cost to do this, HOWEVER... they can't... because the state govt doesn't HAVE ANY MONEY.
                    "But way back where I come from, we never mean to bother. We don't like to make our passions other peoples' concern." -Dar Williams
                    Former Captain of the 55th Infantry Division

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How dumb is Ford?

                      are you talking about Gerald, Harrison, or Tom?

                      (i know what the topic is about, just found it humorous on how he titled it)
                      Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                      Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                      Level I HazMat Technician
                      NYS EMT-B
                      Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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                      Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
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                      Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                      We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

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                      • #12
                        Re: How dumb is Ford?

                        Hahaha. Ford Motor Company.

                        Here's why American companies fail so often. They aren't willing to take big risks like this. They assume not enough Americans will want this to make it instantly profitable, BUT they forget the big picture. Let's look back at Toyota. They took a big risk on the Prius and its expensive technology. They sunk untold amounts of money into R&D, and at the beginning, each vehicle made very little profit due to the new tech. Over time, it caught on like wildfire, and now the dealerships can't keep them in stock for anything! A wise move on Toyota's behalf. It was a huge risk, but they changed the way the world sees cars. Ford needs to learn more from the Japanese and European automakers for sure.
                        "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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                        • #13
                          Re: How dumb is Ford?

                          I don't think you read the replies to your thread; not very thoroughly at the least.

                          Ford doesn't have the CAPITAL to assume a big risk right now, and the Fiesta is NOT a high profit-margin vehicle. If you want to raise sales and bring up a sinking ship, there's a few things you can do:

                          - Cut vehicles that don't sell well, or as a desperate measure, low-profit margin vehicles (such as entry level models)
                          - Innovate more and sell more of your volume vehicles. Which are the Focus on Fusion. The Fusion is a higher profit-margin vehicle. It's great for what it is, but got lost in the sea of "all the other vehicles", same with it's sibling the Milan. The new Taurus (ex-Five Hundred) is also another well-regarded vehicle by JD Power and whatnot, but it's a larger vehicle that right now isn't going to be that popular because of this.
                          - Increase advertising, and put a little additional flair and R&D into, the Escape/Mariner duo. The Hybrid receives glowing reviews, and is thrifty for being a small SUV.

                          In all honesty, I shake my head in pity and disgust at the Big Three as well. However, the topic really is about Ford's strategy to get better and more innovative vehicles to market, that are more in-line with consumer demand and trend. The current trends are Hybrids and Diesel. Ford has historically put all of it's eggs in one basket (haven't they all though?), and produced a crapload of trucks... the F150 being their big " bread 'n' butta " volume sellers for YEARS, and for a number of years, the Ranger, and also the V6 Mustangs. Also, the Grand Marquis for their Fleet and Govt. sales.

                          Ford also had a tradition of being conservatively styled. A lot of their consumer base for a few years, have been repeat-buyers and brand name loyalists (which is why brand recognition and corporate-front ends and style cues are so important and make their way from the top-down of a manufacturer's lineup) and being conservative and afraid of moving out of that comfort zone, because of fear of a big failure.

                          The Countour/Mystique on the Mondeo (Euro) platform, and the redesigned 1999 Mercury Cougar ('99 Ford Probe) were supposed to help with this, but they suffered from two flaws:

                          1) They were launched at the wrong time. Plus, Cougar enthusiasts dissed the front drive coupe platform, further tarnishing the fact that it's really the new Ford Probe. Which was a front-drive "future-forward" candidate to replace the Mustang.

                          2) The Mondeo itself should have come ashore. The Contour and Mystique, while having an "Americanized" body design on the Mondeo platform, was totally cheapened for this market; the materials they used, especially for a Mercury... oh man...


                          I could go on and on. Being a car-nut and growing up in the Motor City tends to load me up.... but the bottom line is that since the late 60s to 70s, the Big Three lost the drive and desire to innovate... because they were immersed in the greed of profits from an automotive industry that didn't have much outside competition. Now that there's competition, they've just about gone belly-up. At FoMoCo, GM, and Chrysler...

                          the bean counters ALWAYS win.
                          "But way back where I come from, we never mean to bother. We don't like to make our passions other peoples' concern." -Dar Williams
                          Former Captain of the 55th Infantry Division

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: How dumb is Ford?

                            You're right, Spulat. I am just annoyed at Fords failure to at least provide its own country with the great product offered overseas.
                            "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How dumb is Ford?

                              Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
                              You're right, Spulat. I am just annoyed at Fords failure to at least provide its own country with the great product offered overseas.
                              I can understand that annoyance, and you know what? Most of America doesn't know what Europe has otherwise a lot of other people would be annoyed as well. Ford has a better brand perception over there. I suppose it's ironic in a sense that foreign automakers do better in this country, than domestic.... when over in Europe, Ford holds it's own as a foreign automaker. Funny how that works...

                              I always read that European buyers are more "critical" of their vehicle purchases, so I suppose that has a fair amount to do with it.

                              European cars also have different crash test and safety standards than the United States does. By design, some European vehicles cannot be imported because they can't possibly be properly retrofitted. They'd have to go through a minor redesign. More and more cars now are being designed as "World Car"s with platforms that are specific in design, but versatile enough to underpin a vehicle that can be sold anywhere in the world.

                              Plus Europeans have different needs than Americans do, their streets are usually narrower, different traffic laws, etc. The fact that we have this idea of importing European models of cars, is really the best idea considering they're already "downsized" so to speak.

                              Volkswagen has a new Board of Management. They've already stated that they plan to actually downsize the next generation Jetta and Golf.

                              The previous (First) generation Acura TSX, is the European Accord. It had enjoyed quite a bit of success.
                              "But way back where I come from, we never mean to bother. We don't like to make our passions other peoples' concern." -Dar Williams
                              Former Captain of the 55th Infantry Division

                              Comment

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