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  • $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

    http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm

    Your government at work. All hail George Bush!

    And yes, just because I hold a captain's license I now have to pay an extra $140 just for this crap... or else I lose my license. Same goes for truckers, busdrivers, longshoremen, port employees, and your average boat-owner/charterer with a license. Regardless of even if you ever visit any port whatsoever.


    ??????

    /rant over

  • #2
    Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

    If it does result in greater security and less false alarms/random investigation, that's not necessarily a high price to pay. However, given the track record of the TSA, I'd immediately question the effectiveness.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

      Welp, let's see... I've been IDed and background checked and drug tested like 4 times in the past 4 years. I've got the brand new flashy passport, new driver's license, and I've paid fees for all of this. All my license upgrades and fees include this as well.

      Now, they tell me I need to pay ANOTHER $140 for yet ANOTHER form of useless identification and threaten to take my licenses away if I dont by "x" date? This is stupid.

      To top it all off they're about to pass this "Real ID" legislation. wtf is goin on here really?

      Aside from having to go through this trouble, where is the justification in paying this amount let alone anything at all? pfft.

      Oh wait, I forgot... in order to enter/leave the country like a "normal citizen" I've also got to get interviewed for even ANOTHER form of "I.D." that says I've been interviewed; so I dont have to keep reporting to customs/Immigr. every time I take a boat offshore, wasting time and money.

      So let's see, altogether I've got like 5 forms of ID that basically do nothing but add fees and waste time all to just drive a boat around. A boat that's private, has all taxes paid, and is employed by hard-working americans.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

        “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” - H.L. Mencken

        http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/fatal...he+twic+scheme

        You can send an objection to your Congresscritter using a form here:

        http://www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/102
        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

          Still suprised Bush or cheney havent been assassinated,
          "A Veteran is someone who , at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to
          'The United states of America' for an amount of 'upto and including my life'. That is honor, and there are way to many people in this country who no longer understand it."-Author Unknown

          "I got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section" -Any.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

            Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
            “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” - H.L. Mencken

            http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/fatal...he+twic+scheme

            You can send an objection to your Congresscritter using a form here:

            http://www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/102
            Nice links there. That's exactly what this is, a backdoor RealID. Y'know I really am not all that opposed to RealID, but I AM opposed to the mountains of IDs and paperwork they require right now and the mountain of money they're collecting to do-so. Fact is, these agencies cant work together so they all STILL require their own specific IDs... so any form of "RealID" is just a waste of time.

            If they can get everyone to agree on ONE form of ID for everyone to handle everything then it'd be worth it. Especially if we didnt have to pay almost 200 bucks for it every 5 years. Right now, it's just another piece of random crap I have to carry around.

            Regardless though, the BILLIONS we just spent in revamping the Passport Agency should be enough to satisfy the Feds. That's the only ID I should need right now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

              Would be kind of nice if they could just put everything on your passport, proof of drivers license, proof of captains license, proof of gun ownership, etc. etc. would probably loose way too damn much money from bureaucracy to ever do that though.
              "A Veteran is someone who , at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to
              'The United states of America' for an amount of 'upto and including my life'. That is honor, and there are way to many people in this country who no longer understand it."-Author Unknown

              "I got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section" -Any.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                That's a CAC card. Most all federal government/DoD employees have them. It should only be required if you are in a position where you need access to secured spaces.

                Everything at my work requires one, from simply getting on the base to logging on my computer and checking my e-mail.

                It's not an attempt at a back-door RealID. If you do any business with any branch of the federal government it will soon be your only method of accepted identification. Passports have no two-factor mechanism in them to validate your identity like CAC cards. Another advantage of CAC cards is they use common CRLs to validate your current status so it is quite easy to check if your access or permissible use has been revoked for any reason.

                The DownsizeDC site seems to be more uneducated conspiracy theory surrounding HSPD12 than anything else. It honestly makes things a lot easier, at least for me. No more passwords to remember, no more requiring multiple IDs to validate my identity, and when presented to a proper authority, it makes it VERY difficult for anyone else to impersonate me.
                Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                  Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                  That's a CAC card. Most all federal government/DoD employees have them. It should only be required if you are in a position where you need access to secured spaces.

                  Everything at my work requires one, from simply getting on the base to logging on my computer and checking my e-mail.

                  It's not an attempt at a back-door RealID. If you do any business with any branch of the federal government it will soon be your only method of accepted identification. Passports have no two-factor mechanism in them to validate your identity like CAC cards. Another advantage of CAC cards is they use common CRLs to validate your current status so it is quite easy to check if your access or permissible use has been revoked for any reason.

                  The DownsizeDC site seems to be more uneducated conspiracy theory surrounding HSPD12 than anything else. It honestly makes things a lot easier, at least for me. No more passwords to remember, no more requiring multiple IDs to validate my identity, and when presented to a proper authority, it makes it VERY difficult for anyone else to impersonate me.

                  Apo, the Coast Guard itself sent me a vivid warning. I MUST have this TWIC or else I lose my license regardless of what I "plan" on doing, whether I "need" it or not, whether I access a secured federal space or not. They're not asking questions or for permission, they're just making demands. And they're doing it for millions of transportation workers.
                  How far it exactly reaches into the transportation system is something I'd like to know, but at least on MY end it's just frikkin required or you're out of a job... period. If I had to guess, basically ALL transportation workers are gonna need this card or they'll be out of a job because there's no way to police it internally. It's easier for the FED to just make EVERYONE have a TWIC and be done with it.

                  p.s.
                  There's a lotta captains down here who make a meagre living and just arent gonna be able to pay that for a stupid ID either just to run a boat. And since the insurance companies are putting the hammer down with who they allow piloting the boats they insure, it's one big clusterscrew. Basically, even if you merely own a boat that you want insured you've gotta have a license... and now in order to HOLD that license you need a TWIC.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                    Originally posted by Gambit7 View Post
                    Apo, the Coast Guard itself sent me a vivid warning. I MUST have this TWIC or else I lose my license regardless of what I "plan" on doing, whether I "need" it or not, whether I access a secured federal space or not. They're not asking questions or for permission, they're just making demands. And they're doing it for millions of transportation workers.
                    How far it exactly reaches into the transportation system is something I'd like to know, but at least on MY end it's just frikkin required or you're out of a job... period. If I had to guess, basically ALL transportation workers are gonna need this card or they'll be out of a job because there's no way to police it internally. It's easier for the FED to just make EVERYONE have a TWIC and be done with it.
                    Which goes back to positive authentication of your person to a federal agency. I would imagine that in your line of work dealing with the Coast Guard can be a fairly routine thing. Even if it isn't, I can understand why having a strong two factor method of authenticating an individual working within that industry isn't a bad thing.

                    There's a lotta captains down here who make a meagre living and just arent gonna be able to pay that for a stupid ID either just to run a boat. And since the insurance companies are putting the hammer down with who they allow piloting the boats they insure, it's one big clusterscrew. Basically, even if you merely own a boat that you want insured you've gotta have a license... and now in order to HOLD that license you need a TWIC.
                    I own two boats that are both insured and no one has been hammering me to get a TWIC. When you say "basically", I don't really think it's as basic as that. As for paying for it, maybe they can pick up a side job somewhere to scrape up the $28/year to pay for the card.
                    Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                      I guess it's more of an issue down here in SoFla where boats are a way of life, although up in Rhode Island it's pretty similar. The insurance thing is largely a function of what kind of coverage you want and how big your boat is. If you're doing BUSINESS with the boat, no matter what size it is and regardless of insurance, you'll be required under this new law to have a TWIC, since you've got to have a license to do business with said boat.

                      Renewing a license isnt free to begin with and adding another $140 to the bill doesnt help things... just for an ID that'll never get used. It's the principle moreso than the cost even.

                      I think it's been more affecting for the millions of other transportation workers that are gonna be forced to get this ID no matter what, or they'll lose their CDL.

                      Regardless of all this though, I LIKE the idea of the RealID... but just not implemented in this way. This way is even dumber IMO.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                        Haha
                        This is getting ridiculous
                        Green cars err permanent resident cards cost like $600-800

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                          Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                          I own two boats that are both insured and no one has been hammering me to get a TWIC. When you say "basically", I don't really think it's as basic as that. As for paying for it, maybe they can pick up a side job somewhere to scrape up the $28/year to pay for the card.
                          Aren't you talking about little rec boats? I think Gambit is talking about actual ship captains, as in Merchant Mariners. Like folks that pilot boats for a living and have a license based on the tonnage of the boat and where it will be sailing...
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                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                            Originally posted by Gambit7 View Post
                            I guess it's more of an issue down here in SoFla where boats are a way of life, although up in Rhode Island it's pretty similar. The insurance thing is largely a function of what kind of coverage you want and how big your boat is. If you're doing BUSINESS with the boat, no matter what size it is and regardless of insurance, you'll be required under this new law to have a TWIC, since you've got to have a license to do business with said boat.

                            Renewing a license isnt free to begin with and adding another $140 to the bill doesnt help things... just for an ID that'll never get used. It's the principle moreso than the cost even.

                            I think it's been more affecting for the millions of other transportation workers that are gonna be forced to get this ID no matter what, or they'll lose their CDL.

                            Regardless of all this though, I LIKE the idea of the RealID... but just not implemented in this way. This way is even dumber IMO.
                            You're right, boats are very much a way of life up here in Rhode Island and I'm sure this will affect plenty of people up here too. I've not been asked to do anything yet, but I don't do any business with my boats other than striper hunting. As for the millions of workers affected; I would think that the employers for many transportation workers will cover this cost directly or through reimbursement.

                            As for the RealID thing, this isn't RealID.
                            Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: $140 For some fingerprints and a photo

                              Originally posted by CingularDuality View Post
                              Aren't you talking about little rec boats? I think Gambit is talking about actual ship captains, as in Merchant Mariners. Like folks that pilot boats for a living and have a license based on the tonnage of the boat and where it will be sailing...
                              Yeah, a 20' Stingray and a 30' Silverton. Both recreational. I thought the same thing about Gambit's references until the comment:

                              "Basically, even if you merely own a boat that you want insured you've gotta have a license..."

                              My point was that it's really not that "basic".
                              Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                              Comment

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