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  • I am torn between candidates...

    On the one hand, I am a long time Republican and proud of my parties positions and stances... for the most part... I do believe my party is better in leading our military and fighting crime, and keeping America safe... there hasn't been one terrorist attack on American soil since Pres. Bush brought the war to them.

    But on the other hand, I really do like what Obama has been saying... right now, it needs to be America first... we need to finish this war, but in good standings and not just leave the countries in shambles, we need to jump start our own economy ASAP... I am willing to pay taxes, even a slight increase in taxes to get us out of debt, and get our economy going in the right direction... but I sure don't want to be paying taxes for low income, or un-employed single parents with 10 kids to live of of welfare and food stamps on my dollar... I'm all for helping out the less fortunate, but these lazy, criminals who do nothing but burden society, need to get off there fat asses and start making something of themselves...

    The problem? I don't think the president has the power to "change" things as Obama likes to say... the president of the US only really has power over the military, and in that department Obama is extremely under-qualified... it is NOT the president that passes laws, budgets, etc etc for change... it is congress... the president really doesn't have as much power as people think, it is congress.

    So... McCain knows the presidents job, knows how to lead our military, and is tough on crime. (not to mention, IMO, he's got a HOT vice-president, lol)

    Obama... talks great on change, I like the end the war and bring that money back to us, (10 billion a month, come on folks... we need that money here), I like that he wants to talk with our enemies, (our past policy of ignoring them did nothing), and I definitely like the 10 year plan on getting our dependency on foreign oil in check. (Why can't this whole country, besides vehicles, be ran on Nuke energy... we got the technology and all we need to do is make sure our reactors our safe and secured.)

    But can Obama really do all that he wants/promises... I really don't think so.

    I'm so torn-ed between my past beliefs...and what we need for the 4 to 8 year future...

    Comments/feedback?
    Magnum |TG-18th|


    We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.


  • #2
    Re: I am torn between candidates...

    Originally posted by Magnum50 View Post

    So... McCain knows the presidents job, knows how to lead our military, and is tough on crime. (not to mention, IMO, he's got a HOT vice-president, lol)



    But can Obama really do all that he wants/promises... I really don't think so.



    Comments/feedback?
    IMHO after the debate last night McCain for the win.


    18th SF Operational Detachment Delta

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    • #3
      Re: I am torn between candidates...

      Obama was very flimsy last night. I only caught the second half of the debate, but it seemed that all BHO had to offer was repeating old campaign lines in lieu of responding to the questions.

      I figure once Palin finishes picking pices of Biden from between her teeth, the election will be pretty close to locked.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I am torn between candidates...

        Magnum, it's time for you to consider bellying up to the Barr.

        http://www.bobbarr2008.com/issues/
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        • #5
          Re: I am torn between candidates...

          Originally posted by TG_Bubba View Post
          IMHO after the debate last night McCain for the win.
          I was just thinking the exact opposite. Read on if you want to know why. The polls (I'll cite a midwest one) also seem to indicate that it's Obama FTW - especially among independents, and that's pretty critical. The national polls have also been separating again, this past week with Obama more than 5 points over McCain. All signs seem to indicate that it's Obama that will take gains, even if marginal, from this debate.

          I was honestly surprised at how McCain was unable to speak any logic towards the current financial and economic problems last night. This is a bizarre yet supremely dangerous period in American economic history and he can't even confirm that he will support the negotiated legislation designed to buffer it? What's more important to him?

          Regarding the issue of taxes, his policies would enrich the people and businesses in this country who need it the least - we're witnessing fallout today that is at least in part (though certainly not all) due to the hands-off, business-centric 'trickle down' economic policies of past republican leadership. Perpetuating that philosophy will ultimately doom the middle class in this country, and in doing so ruin the economy. This is already happening. McCain's apparent anger at earmarking makes no sense, and chanting re-used lines like "I will make them famous" only serves to dilute his outdated argument. The mass-consuming middle class is what drives this economy, and that class has stagnated over the past several years and is now sinking. McCain refuses to acknowledge this, and continues to insist on reducing taxes at the top in a period of enormous economic strain. It's nonsensical.

          In terms of the foreign policy talk, including Iraq and Afghanistan, it was abundantly clear how different these two men are. I side with Obama - the country and the world need more transparency, must seriously focus on the nuclear threat and do so without preconceptions and the pigheadedness that often comes with it. McCain displayed a bit too much of that last night. Again, recent history has shown that bullheadedness solves nothing, and often creates even more problems. Bush's war on terror has brought about a marked increases in armament, weapons and violence around the world. McCain's administration may not be four more years of the Bush doctrine, but they would represent a similar world view with blinders on.

          You've got to ask yourself which of these two men is more visionary, which has a better perspective on history, the future, the long view? Which displayed an ability to learn lessons? Which is more likely to actually work across the aisle? Which has more of the interests of the people in mind when they approach an issue?

          My last observation after last night - some may claim that it was disrespectful of Obama to call McCain 'John.' Say what you will, but if McCain can't even manage the courage and respect to look at his opponent in a debate that was supposed to encourage that, he doesn't belong up there.

          McCain had more to lose in this debate, and he gained nothing. Let's see what the coming weeks bring.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I am torn between candidates...

            Obama would take away most of your rights to bear arms, if elected, and, living in a country with tight gun control and skyrocketing crime rates, I'd rather not see that. The really bad thing I see about McCain at the moment is that he's allying himself more and more with Christian fundamentalists, and that's certainly a thing to worry about, though as long as you don't live in a state where teaching ID as alternative to evolution is legal or want to abort your pregnancy, it's not too bad I guess, and still a lot better than being stripped of almost all your rights to use your gun and buy ammo for it etc..

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I am torn between candidates...

              Torn between two candidates, a codger and a fool
              Even though the two are just a pair of tools

              &c.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I am torn between candidates...

                I used to support McCain a lot until he started mudslinging. This race for the presidency is just about a popularity contest; it shouldn't be that way. If I could vote, I'd go independent just to make a point.




                "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that you've armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I am torn between candidates...

                  A typical debate where the candidates are being careful not to slip up so they don't say anything interesting.

                  Kinda of a toss up in my opinion but I watched it while taking care of the kids.

                  They are starting to get nasty, I did notice that.
                  Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                  - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                  - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                  - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                  - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                  - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                  - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I am torn between candidates...

                    I pretty much agree with what AMosely said.

                    This debate didn't have the "killing blow" that I think most Obama supporters wanted to see, nor did it have the supreme comeback that McCain supporters wanted to see. So I think supporters will each say that their respective candidates won. Judging the slew of post debate polls, the independents leaned to Obama, but not all of them did.

                    What I did think was interesting is how well Obama held his own against John McCain in the Foreign Policy field - which I think is a big deal for Obama. The entire debate reminded me of the Nixon - JFK debate back in the 1960s. It was the first ever televised debate between two presidential candidates. JFK came off as cool, calm, and collected giving him the edge over the more experienced Nixon. Nixon had just had surgery the week before, and looked nervous and pale. Obama seemed cool and steady handed in this debate outlaying areas of major difference, and gave off an air of confidence. McCain seemed aggrivated and cold during the debate, by refusing to look at Obama, grumble and sigh into the mic during his opponents time, or even to say his name (where Obama for example directly addressed him and looked at him). I think that was an important indicator to the behavior of the future commander and chief on the global stage.

                    Check out the JFK debate here - very interesting similarities. See Nixon cough and shift and see JFK come off as confident and handle the questions well despite being called "naive" and "inexperienced".

                    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QazmVHAO0os[/media]

                    The Palin/Biden debate will be interesting to see as well as the format will be different. There wont be a lot of "roam" space for Biden to rail on Palin as the structure is controlled. I think we'll see Palin deploy some all-purpose soundbites repeatedly as she has proven in all three of her interviews that she cannot backup her talking points. Biden's problem will be calling "Bullsh*t" on some of her claims (I can see Russia from my house) while not appearing as a sexist bully - which is what they'll try to paint him as.


                    PR Testing Team: Serious Business.

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                    • #11
                      Re: I am torn between candidates...

                      IMO McCain is more qualified to be President and Commander in Chief. The president's primary roles are the defense of this country and foreign policy. As far as the economy and domestic issues, look to congress and senate, the make the rules and decide what we spend money on.
                      They have been blaming George Bush for our woes(keep in mind that I was a Bush supporter, but he has really dissapointed me), but the reality is that the congress and senate did this to us. I can get on my soap box and say the Dems where in control, reality is that both parties are to blame.
                      All the domestic issues they both talk about are irrelevant. They will not get anything done unless thier party controls the House and Senate. I pick the person with the best experience in Military and foriegn policy...........John McCain.

                      As much as I dislike Biden, the better ticket would be McCain and Biden.



                      Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts:

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                      • #12
                        Re: I am torn between candidates...

                        What disgusted me was the lack of focus on the big issues, misconstruing of positions, and inaccurate personal attacks on both sides (much more so on McCain's though).

                        I think Obama won by a small but solid margin simply because he stuck to the core issues more and had more thorough explanations, despite his opponent's claim of 'navete' and 'lack of understanding' -- a weak cop-out.

                        Simply disgusting that politics in the US has degraded into a patriotism wankfest and dumbing-down of everything to "black and white" (a false dualism), ignoring all the important details, for the average American citizen.



                        TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran

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                        • #13
                          Re: I am torn between candidates...

                          I don't get the whole "McCain is a better Commander In Chief". The only thing that I can think is that he might have more support of the top brass. But, really, if you honestly listen to the military and don't cut their budget too much and you don't put troops into danger without support you will do fine.

                          Neither president is going to be commanding troops in the field.

                          Ok, McCain gets the automatic respect that all new Republicans get. He has that.

                          The one thing Reagan showed is that foreign policy requires a steady, consistent approach. (And GW showed that you can take that tactic to far.)

                          I think Obama has shown that steady, consistent approach more than McCain. Look at the latest crisis. First he is out of the debate then he is in the debate. Very reactionary. We don't need reactionary right now.
                          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I am torn between candidates...

                            Originally posted by tau_neutrino View Post
                            What disgusted me was the lack of focus on the big issues, misconstruing of positions, and inaccurate personal attacks on both sides (much more so on McCain's though).

                            I think Obama won by a small but solid margin simply because he stuck to the core issues more and had more thorough explanations, despite his opponent's claim of 'navete' and 'lack of understanding' -- a weak cop-out.

                            Simply disgusting that politics in the US has degraded into a patriotism wankfest and dumbing-down of everything to "black and white" (a false dualism), ignoring all the important details, for the average American citizen.
                            There is a pod cast called "My history will beat up your politics" that I listen to. The main thread of that series is that politics has always been dirty in America. It has never been an honorable pursuit. Media has always been a biased tool used by the politicians and the will of the people is rarely realized.

                            It is a great podcast and I recommend it to anybody. I know it is available in the Zune market place.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I am torn between candidates...

                              Those of you who think Obama "dropped the ball" during the debate are mistaken. He's FULLY capable of sending McCain home in a soiled diaper if he so chose. What you have to realize is Obama's camp set a tactic to appeal to a certain segment of America they hadn't shored up yet, while simultaneously holding their own against McCain on issues McCain MIGHT have been stronger in.

                              This debate was aimed at Independents and white women, of which Obama DOMINATED over with his uber-cool non-mudslinging, respectful style. It was not Obama's goal to appeal to "TG-like" folk who usually prefer a stronger more militaristic style... i.e. kick ass and take names, etc.

                              Now, what you will see in the NEXT debates is Obama turn up the intellectual heat on McCain and punk him out. Which is much smarter since he seems to be gaining momentum and shoring up the indy and women vote after this 1st debate. Knockout blows are more meaningful in the "championship rounds" then a KO in the 3rd. It's the difference between a one-hit wonder and a true champion.

                              I urge people to wait until the last debate is over before making final judgements. For it is then you will see some more drama.

                              As for Palin vs. Biden. I USED to think Palin would eat him alive, but after seeing her past 3 interviews and the way the GOP is handling her, I'm not so sure now. It wouldnt be very hard for Biden to prepare to handle Palin's bite, because I honestly think her bite is more like a quick "nip" rather then a pitbull's lockjaw.

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