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Vote-theft, Diebold-style

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  • Vote-theft, Diebold-style

    Just thought that I'd point out that in our political system, the pendulum swings both ways. The Republicans just seem to be better at being sneaky about it. Why would anyone want a paper trail from these machines anyhow?

    http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200810...=2&build=cache

    Some early W.Va. voters angry over switched votes
    Jackson County touch-screens switched votes, 3 residents say
    At least three early voters in Jackson County had a hard time voting for candidates they want to win.
    By Paul J. Nyden
    Staff writer

    At least three early voters in Jackson County had a hard time voting for candidates they want to win.

    Virginia Matheney and Calvin Thomas said touch-screen machines in the county clerk's office in Ripley kept switching their votes from Democratic to Republican candidates.

    "When I touched the screen for Barack Obama, the check mark moved from his box to the box indicating a vote for John McCain," said Matheney, who lives in Kenna.

    When she reported the problem, she said, the poll worker in charge "responded that everything was all right. It was just that the screen was sensitive and I was touching the screen too hard. She instructed me to use only my fingernail."

    Even after she began using her fingernail, Matheney said, the problem persisted.

    When she tried to vote for candidates running for two open seats on the Supreme Court, the electronic machine canceled her second vote twice.

    On her third try, Matheney managed to cast votes for both Menis Ketchum and Margaret Workman, Democratic candidates for the two open seats.

    Calvin Thomas, 81, who retired from Kaiser Aluminum in Ravenswood in 1983 and now lives in Ripley, experienced the same problem.

    "When I pushed Obama, it jumped to McCain. When I went down to governor's office and punched [Gov. Joe] Manchin, it went to the other dude. When I went to Karen Facemyer [the incumbent Republican state senator], I pushed the Democrat, but it jumped again.

    "The rest of them were OK, but the machine sent my votes for those top three offices from the Democrat to the Republican," Thomas said.

    "When I hollered about that, the girl who worked there said, 'Push it again.' I pushed Obama again and it stayed there. Then, the machine did the same thing for other candidates.

    "Why didn't she [the polling clerk] tell me before I even used the machine that might happen? And how many people, especially my age, didn't notice that?



    "Jackson County is a Republican county. I am a registered Republican, but I have been voting Democrat since the 1990s."

    Thomas, who brought his daughter with him to the polls, said she had the same problem.

    "After I finished, my daughter voted. When she pushed Obama, it went to McCain. It happened to her the same way it happened to me. If the poll worker knew that, why didn't she tell me before I even pushed the button?"

    Deputy Secretary of State Sarah Bailey said, "When we received a call about this, we immediately called the county and told them to recalibrate the machines to make sure the finger-touch [area] lines up with the ballot.

    "Sometimes machines can become miscalibrated when they are moved from storage facilities to early voting areas," Bailey said Friday. "We get a couple of calls about this each election year."

    Most voting machines in most counties do work properly, Bailey added.

    Jackson County Clerk Jeff Waybright said, "After we got a call from the Secretary of State's Office, we recalibrated the machine. We had already voted over 400 people with no problems."

    Voting problems occur when voters touch the screen, Waybright said, but do not put their fingers inside boxes for their candidates.

    Waybright blamed the problem on voters.

    "People make mistakes more than the machines," he said, "but I went in yesterday and recalibrated the machines. We are doing everything we can not to disenfranchise anybody."

    Matheney remains concerned.

    "Leaving the polling place," she said, "I wondered how many voters might not have noticed that their vote was switched on the machine."
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  • #2
    Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

    Let's be very clear here. If there are problems with Diebold machines, they need to get fixed. NOW. If ACORN is registering people illegally, those responsible need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If Ohio's Sec of State is aware of problems with voters' registrations, she should, IMO, make every effort to ensure that the election that occurs on her watch is accurate and legal.

    IMO, everyone in this country should provide positive ID when voting and they should get a receipt that shows their vote, so they can help prove or disprove schenanigans after the fact if they so choose. If getting an ID is onerous for some, then I think we should work on making it easy. I'd happily spend a few billion to get IDs in the hands of the aged and infirm.

    I don't care if people vote differently from me. I don't even mind that much if the majority votes against my wishes.

    But this business of being against voting machines because the republicans could rig them (seems as easy for democrats to rig them, but whatever) or not really caring about ACORN registering people illegally is, I think, extremely dangerous because when we lose faith in the electoral process there will be blood in the streets.

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    • #3
      Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

      I'm not against voting machines per se, I'm against voting machines that have no verifiable paper trail, no sort of receipt for voters to ensure that their choice was registered properly and no paper logs that can be verified later if a discrepancy is alleged. Obviously, we can't make a completely secure system but I fail to understand why some people seem to be so vehemently opposed to taking these simple steps.

      By the way, I'm not trying to say that I think you are for voter fraud. That would be ridiculous. I'm just trying to point out that we live in a country that is run by two pretty corrupt political parties and it shouldn't be terribly shocking when either side does something morally reprehensible to try to grab a greater share of the power.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

        And this is why I'm against touch screens. :P

        I'd personally prefer a system step up like ATM's (err slighty older styled ATM's) with the buttons on the side that line up with the candidates/propositions/issues.

        And yes, voter fraud in all its forms and incantations should be illegal with harsh punishments.
        BF 2142:|TG| Birdman10113
        CoD4: |TG|Birdman

        Let's put the badges here...

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        • #5
          Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

          I think all the ballots should be paper. The Constitution provides plenty of time for votes to be tallied after an election. Between absentee ballots coming in days later, and all the counting that needs to be done, I don't see any reason why we need to have the results the same night.
          ---
          Sources say the Dow Jones' decline is directly related to Dethklok front-man Nathan Explosion's constant deleting of potential new albums.

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          • #6
            Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

            Originally posted by Switchcraft View Post
            I think all the ballots should be paper. The Constitution provides plenty of time for votes to be tallied after an election. Between absentee ballots coming in days later, and all the counting that needs to be done, I don't see any reason why we need to have the results the same night.
            Ratings.
            ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
            No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

            <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

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            • #7
              Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

              Originally posted by Rincewind View Post
              Ratings.
              Agreed. I just don't think it's a good reason. Besides, wouldn't election night be more enjoyable if they interrupt whatever I was doing to tell me me who was winning with 1% of the precincts reporting every 15 minutes?
              ---
              Sources say the Dow Jones' decline is directly related to Dethklok front-man Nathan Explosion's constant deleting of potential new albums.

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              • #8
                Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                Originally posted by leejo View Post
                If ACORN is registering people illegally, those responsible need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
                Problem: A 'fraudulent registration' isn't specifically a registration filled out intentionally wrong. If I miswrote my SSN, or they spelled my name wrong, or missed a line somewhere, it becomes invalid / fraudulent. There's also an implication that ACORN employees sat down and fabricated every one - more than a few could've been innocent people who just didn't give a **** and filled out the card real quick to get rid of them.

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                • #9
                  Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                  Originally posted by Uranium - 235 View Post
                  Problem: A 'fraudulent registration' isn't specifically a registration filled out intentionally wrong. If I miswrote my SSN, or they spelled my name wrong, or missed a line somewhere, it becomes invalid / fraudulent. There's also an implication that ACORN employees sat down and fabricated every one - more than a few could've been innocent people who just didn't give a **** and filled out the card real quick to get rid of them.
                  There is a difference between mistaken/incorrect and fraudulent. He said fraudulent, which involves intentional deceit. There is plenty of direct evidence that some ACORN employees have purposely fabricated thousands of registrations. ACORN even says so...what's the problem?
                  ---
                  Sources say the Dow Jones' decline is directly related to Dethklok front-man Nathan Explosion's constant deleting of potential new albums.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                    Originally posted by Switchcraft View Post
                    There is a difference between mistaken/incorrect and fraudulent. He said fraudulent, which involves intentional deceit.
                    The media is involved with this, and whereever the media is, it becomes an issue of semantics. Where ACORN hands over their 'suspect' ballots for verification, the media reports those as instantly all fraudulent.

                    I could report 500,000 casualties in Iraq, but a casualty isn't someone who is killed either.

                    There is plenty of direct evidence that some ACORN employees have purposely fabricated thousands of registrations. ACORN even says so...what's the problem?
                    I'm saying a lot of innocent people could get burned by this, or a lot of guilty people could get away scot-free.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                      Yeah - this needs to be fixed, too.
                      If the voting machines are messed up, Robin Williams could be elected.. wait.. uh... that's a movie.
                      "Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
                      Good luck getting rid of your disease. If you're infected, though, stay away--I can't afford to be a zombie right now.
                      " Ednos


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                      • #12
                        Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                        Voting machines should be open source. Not necessarily free code. That's different. It's not necessary that others be able to use the code in their products. But every bit should be available for the public to inspect.

                        OTOH, free open source can be used as a standard that anyone can implement on their hardware, and under public inspection, it can be checked and corrected for holes, just like the SSL security software used in most web servers.
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                        • #13
                          Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                          A new and stomach dropping video of a touch-screen machine failing to register the correct votes even after it has been calibrated:

                          [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9NSVUu8nk[/media]

                          How confident are you that:

                          a) All machines in your precinct will have been recently calibrated by a trained professional?

                          b) Your machine will be one of the few models with a paper trail?

                          c) Trained techies will be on-site at all polling places, in all 50 states?

                          d) The techies will follow up after the first "recalibration" fails?

                          e) Poll-workers will take the time to help you confirm your vote with throngs of irate voters waiting behind you?

                          f) Poll workers, even if by some miracle they admit your vote was registered wrong, will somehow manually delete the wrong vote and let you go back in the booth to try again?

                          g) Given that nobody can see the code, and the only mistakes we are able to see are the ones reflected on the visual user interface, that the "calibration bug" is the only part of the programming of the machine that can screw up your vote?

                          i) You will even get to see a voting booth if you live in a precinct where lots of machines are screwing up, and the lines simply don't move forward?

                          I hate to think of myself as a conspiracy theorist. I really do. But sometimes, "Wake Up Sheeple!" are the only appropriate words.
                          ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
                          No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

                          <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Vote-theft, Diebold-style

                            Originally posted by Switchcraft View Post
                            Agreed. I just don't think it's a good reason. Besides, wouldn't election night be more enjoyable if they interrupt whatever I was doing to tell me me who was winning with 1% of the precincts reporting every 15 minutes?
                            LOL exactly! Why do we have to know that very night.

                            Of course the machines are a step toward voting at our computers. That is a debate all it's own.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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