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Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

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  • Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

    My 4 year old daughter has lead a very mellow life so far. My two year old son has been to the emergency room 3 times, each of which involved an overnight stay at the hospital, has had several black eyes, and last night knocked out a toof, root and all (big sister didn't appreciate his standing between her and Yo Gabba Gabba so she shoved him out of the way, &c).

    Despite being raised wearing lavender and pink pajamas and playing with a host of girl-toys, and the fact that he's currently strolling around wearing a pair of his sister's dress-up high heels notwithstanding, my son has always spazzed over planes, trains, and automobiles. Loves 'em.

    Meanwhile, if there is a picture of a princess on a box, poster, can of soup (yes you non-parents, they market soup with cartoon characters on the label and yes that can is more expensive than the same soup sans 'toon), or underwear, my daughter will see it and want that princess-related thing. Also, for some reason she LOVES her some pink.

    I have assumed that all of this is their mother's fault, but maybe some of you with a psychology background can enlighten me: why is my little girl so fiercely feminine and my little boy so expensive, I mean in the hospital all the time? It's just astonishing how different they are and how strongly and quickly their gender-specific behavior kicked in.

  • #2
    Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

    Because one is a girl and the other is a boy?

    Nobody really knows. Nature plays a large role. Nurture also plays a large role. The amount each plays in each individual is different.

    There are certain natural traits that seem to allow the environment to play a larger role in the individual.

    My 12 year old girl wants her bedroom painted black and red and loves her some Kiss, much to me and my wife's distress. We started her out in pink and Hello Kitty. Her biological mother, who she does spend time with, also is into the black and loves Halloween. Which is driving my daughter? The very small amount of time she spends with her mother or some biological trait that she inherited from her mother?

    I say much of it is biological. Even when my daughter was a little girl she never liked dolls and such. She had pet toads, of all things. This happened with almost no influence of her mother. But her mother definitaly has an influence.
    Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
    - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
    - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
    - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
    - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
    - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
    - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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    • #3
      Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

      As the father of three young boys I can offer you no advice on how to keep boys out of the emergency room. It seems to me that I'm doing my part at keeping the local medical establishment in business. So if you figure out a trick, let me know.

      The advice I can offer you is to keep you medical flex account full up.
      ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
      No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

      <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

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      • #4
        Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
        My 12 year old girl wants her bedroom painted black and red and loves her some Kiss, much to me and my wife's distress. We started her out in pink and Hello Kitty. Her biological mother, who she does spend time with, also is into the black and loves Halloween. Which is driving my daughter? The very small amount of time she spends with her mother or some biological trait that she inherited from her mother?
        Or could it be....SATAN??!!!

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        • #5
          Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

          Originally posted by Rincewind View Post
          As the father of three young boys I can offer you no advice on how to keep boys out of the emergency room. It seems to me that I'm doing my part at keeping the local medical establishment in business. So if you figure out a trick, let me know.

          The advice I can offer you is to keep you medical flex account full up.
          No kidding "braugh". I just wish I could go one month without some random $4k bill flying at me from nowhere.

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          • #6
            Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

            It's genetics, and the liklihood (or unliklihood) that certain physical and sociological traits are represented in males and females. Interestingly this also speaks to homosexuality. Homosexuality and gender confusion (mind-body opposites) are also products of genetics and are present at young ages. It has been documented that such discrepancies can occur with any human being, even in cases of identical twins (where one boy will love trucks and the other will love dolls).

            It sounds like your two kids line up just fine against what society deems common genetic traits of males and females. Life is tough when you don't.

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            • #7
              Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

              It's also important to note that friends play a role (falling into the nurture category some). I'll admit, and I'm sure all others will to some extent, that the people I would hang out with as a kid was a factor in what I wanted. (Who didn't want a SNES?!) If your son hangs out with rough boys, he's likely to want a bike or toy swords or a football helmet. If he's friends with softer boys, he might want to put on plays or ask for comic books for Christmas. Not saying he can't want comic books on his own accord, but peer pressure and youthfulness (for lack of a better word) are a dangerous mix.

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              • #8
                Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                Originally posted by Capt Splendid View Post
                It's also important to note that friends play a role (falling into the nurture category some).
                This is entirely under the "nurture" category. Nature is your genes and nurture is the environment.

                It does get confusing. For example what is a woman in her forties increasing the chance of downs syndrome pregnant fall under? It chromosomal defect but the age of the mother (environment) does play a role.

                In the end they are not two distinct categories completely separate from each other.
                Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                  Originally posted by leejo View Post
                  Also, for some reason she LOVES her some pink.
                  My four year old girl HAS to have anything pink.

                  While I don't have boys, I was amazed that when my mother bought her a tea set at 1 year 4 months old, she knew exactly what to do with it. She was told it was a tea set and she started arranging plates, cups, pouring tea and serving it to everyone. NO ONE had ever played tea with her before. It stunned most of us who thought we'd have to show her how you were supposed to play with it.

                  I will also say that my youngest daughter is a little rough and tumble. She likes to push and scream to get her way and she's not afraid of anything, run off of the couch, play stand on dads shoulders and push his hands away. No serious injuries, but she's only 2 1/2
                  Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"

                  Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please seek psychiatric attention.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                    Well having an older daughter 7 and a younger son that is soon to be 3 I can relate to this. My take on it is that when you have your first child you are so afraid of them getting hurt so you are tuned into their every whine, whimper and all out cry. So with her being the girl that nurturing falls right into line with here genes and genetics (girl). When the second one comes along when they whimper, whine, and flat out start whaling you look at them and tell them to brush it off and that falls into the "tough guy" category (boy). I just think it has to do with the order in which they were born and the difference in the parents approach in raising them. God I hope that makes sense LOL

                    why is my little girl so fiercely feminine and my little boy so expensive,
                    This will change as your daughter gets older she will be more expensive not due to hospital visits but clothes, cell phone and makeup bills!!!!!!!
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                      Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                      This is entirely under the "nurture" category. Nature is your genes and nurture is the environment.
                      Yeah I understand that. Maybe you can correct me here then: I was about to say that nature might play a role in that it can "choose" which friends your child (or you) would choose and rather be around. For example, a homosexual individual will choose a different set of friends from birth than a heterosexual child. Then within those friends they are influenced via nurture.

                      But maybe not.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                        Originally posted by Capt Splendid View Post
                        Yeah I understand that. Maybe you can correct me here then: I was about to say that nature might play a role in that it can "choose" which friends your child (or you) would choose and rather be around. For example, a homosexual individual will choose a different set of friends from birth than a heterosexual child. Then within those friends they are influenced via nurture.

                        But maybe not.
                        Could be but I don't think we understand it well enough to go that far with any certainty.

                        Choosing a friend is a pretty complicated process in and of itself. Racial, socioeconomic, availability, education levels, attractiveness, religious beliefs and tons of other things probably wash out any genetic friend choosing factors.

                        Genetics plays a role in decision making capabilities. So who knows.
                        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                          Basicly, your girl may spend a lot of time with you/be surrounded by boys and crave difference/attention. Your boy, is a boy. And a little boy. He will get hurt. A lot.

                          ~Sirsolo

                          Im 17 btw.. so this may mean nothing..
                          |TG-Irr|Sirsolo since 18OCT08.

                          Carpe Diem

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                            Originally posted by Drizzid View Post
                            This will change as your daughter gets older she will be more expensive not due to hospital visits but clothes, cell phone and makeup bills!!!!!!!
                            And babies. ;D
                            ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
                            No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

                            <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Nature vs. Nurture in the Octagon

                              It is both Nature and Nurture. You are born with some genetic predispositions. For example, you have a certain range of heights or weights, etc., you could be in due to genes, but nurture will decide where you fall in that range. For example, you could have a range of 5'7" to 6'2", and due to poor diet, or some other environmental factor, during development your height in real life is 5'8". Same for personality in my opinion, I believe you are born with some predispositions to how you may behave or act, or likes and dislikes, but nurture is incredibly powerful in these regards. Societal factors and interpersonal relationships are key points in your child's development, as you know. Depending what you as a parent favor or disfavor in your child's behavior, they may modify it. Friends have a huge influence, and media is incredibly important as well. Gender roles are so strictly defined in most cultures, that there is no real room to move much outside the set roles for masculinity and femininity, unless you want to be alienated. Just look at children's toys, commercials, and basically how everything is gender targeted, including blue and pink.

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