Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

    In this film, as some of you may remember, Michael Moore attempts to figure out why England has so many fewer murders than the US. His conclusion we're all familiar with: Moore determines that the US has more murders each year because guns are legal here.

    However, yesterday a US official inadvertently gave us a different reason:

    Originally posted by A Senior US Government Official
    "If the drug effort were failing there would be no violence"
    Bravo.
    A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

    "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

  • #2
    Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

    That movie was so far beyond retarded, bias, and un-informational. I simply cannot stand it...
    |TG-X|Turkish

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

      Luckily, this thread isn't really about that movie at all. It's completely tangential to the topic. Nikolas just needs a little help choosing thread titles...

      Also, Context is good.

      Originally posted by Article
      Mr. Walters said increased violence in border areas of Mexico was partly a result of criminal organizations compensating for reduced income from the supply of drugs by turning to other activities, such as people-smuggling, and continuing to fight over turf.

      U.S. law-enforcement officials -- as well as some of their counterparts in Mexico -- say the explosion in violence indicates progress in the war on drugs as organizations under pressure are clashing.

      "If the drug effort were failing there would be no violence," a senior U.S. official said Wednesday. There is violence "because these guys are flailing. We're taking these guys out. The worst thing you could do is stop now."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

        That's a clever Morton's Fork

        If Mexico is peaceful then it's because the drug war is successful. If the country is violent it's because the drug war is putting great pressure on the drug dealers and must be successful.

        I can think of a few more for Mr Senior U.S. Official. (Do you think he might possibly be from the DEA?)

        If the drug dealers are disorganized then the drug war is successful. If the drug dealers are highly organized, it is out of necessity because smuggling drugs is so difficult, thanks to the successful drug war.

        If your kids are getting high then the drug war needs more funding. If your kids aren't getting high it is because of the drug war, which should be rewarded with more funding.

        If there is a drug bust in your area, then the drug war has made you safer. If there is no drug bust in your area, then you must already be safe, thanks to the drug war.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

          Originally posted by RandomGuy View Post
          That's a clever Morton's Fork

          If Mexico is peaceful then it's because the drug war is successful. If the country is violent it's because the drug war is putting great pressure on the drug dealers and must be successful.

          I can think of a few more for Mr Senior U.S. Official. (Do you think he might possibly be from the DEA?)

          If the drug dealers are disorganized then the drug war is successful. If the drug dealers are highly organized, it is out of necessity because smuggling drugs is so difficult, thanks to the successful drug war.

          If your kids are getting high then the drug war needs more funding. If your kids aren't getting high it is because of the drug war, which should be rewarded with more funding.

          If there is a drug bust in your area, then the drug war has made you safer. If there is no drug bust in your area, then you must already be safe, thanks to the drug war.
          Wow, you must work for the media. That was a very fine example of twisting the senior officials words.

          What he said was, if we are suceeding in the war and putting pressure on the cartels than they fight each other for lost revenue and alternate sources of income and to try destroy competition.

          If we were losing on the war on drugs, there would be less violence between the cartels as there would be more cash and trades to go around between competing cartels.

          As far as the rest of your post goes, makes sense. But in reality the best thing to stop drug use is education. Real education on what drugs do to our society. And I say to "our" society because I know someone will use Europe as an example of a society that seems to do fine with some legilized drugs. They also handle alcohol better than Americans, we just cant seem to hold our liqour any better than we can our drugs.

          Keep the outlaw of drugs and educate Americans on what drugs will lead to.

          |TG-IRR|

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

            Make em legal and much of the violence will go away.

            BTW Bowling for Columbine was a good movie. Propaganda to be sure. But still good.
            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

              Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
              Make em legal and much of the violence will go away.

              BTW Bowling for Columbine was a good movie. Propaganda to be sure. But still good.
              Thats a pipe dream in the US. Making marijuana legal would lead to it being highly regulated. Which would end up making it just as unavailable as it is today and being sold like scripts. Which would turn out no different than it is today.

              Making just about any other illict drug legal is just irresponsible and only supported by drug addicts.

              |TG-IRR|

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                Originally posted by Beinseth View Post
                Thats a pipe dream in the US. Making marijuana legal would lead to it being highly regulated. Which would end up making it just as unavailable as it is today and being sold like scripts. Which would turn out no different than it is today.

                Making just about any other illict drug legal is just irresponsible and only supported by drug addicts.
                Wrong. Many people support it that do not use illegal drugs. Like me.

                I think it should be de-criminalized at the federal level. Level the regulation to the states.

                Some drugs could remain illegal or regulated at the federal level. Those drugs that science determines to be to dangerous are more regulated.
                Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                  Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                  Wrong. Many people support it that do not use illegal drugs. Like me.

                  I think it should be de-criminalized at the federal level. Level the regulation to the states.

                  Some drugs could remain illegal or regulated at the federal level. Those drugs that science determines to be to dangerous are more regulated.
                  As often as I usually disagree with you on many topics, Gringo, I'm kinda with you on this one. We could really free up a lot of jail space if we changed our laws a bit. Like you said, leave it up to the individual states. I'm not a drug user and hate drugs. Just like I'm totally pro-life. I'm also against gay marriage. BUT at the same time, I think those issues should not be in the power of the federal government to decide.
                  "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                    Funny, in America the more drugs in an area the more violence. I guess they do things differently in Mejiko. Heroin is cheaper then a Michelob lite now, but usually the price of things go up when they are scarce. I'm glad the drug war guys got it all figured out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                      In theory, I have no problem with either banning drugs or attempting a "war on drugs" to prevent their import. In practice, the war on drugs has been a gigantic waste of money and hasn't accomplished much. So from a purely pragmatic standpoint, we could do well to re-arrange our priorities and move drugs down towards the bottom of the list.

                      Our jails are overcrowded (and costing millions to operate) largely because of all the drug-users locked away with federal mandatory minimum sentences for years and years. Marijuana use should just be a misdemeanor and get you a fine like it was a traffic ticket. We'd save SO much money if we did that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                        Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                        In theory, I have no problem with either banning drugs or attempting a "war on drugs" to prevent their import. In practice, the war on drugs has been a gigantic waste of money and hasn't accomplished much. So from a purely pragmatic standpoint, we could do well to re-arrange our priorities and move drugs down towards the bottom of the list.

                        Our jails are overcrowded (and costing millions to operate) largely because of all the drug-users locked away with federal mandatory minimum sentences for years and years. Marijuana use should just be a misdemeanor and get you a fine like it was a traffic ticket. We'd save SO much money if we did that.
                        Yea, on a purely personal level I would like to see the "war on drugs" continued and be able abolish illicit drugs from our country. I don't hate them but I don't have much use for them either.

                        But it isn't going to happen because people like drugs. They want them. If you try to take away something the people want all you are going to do is:
                        1. Make getting it much more expensive.
                        2. Create large amounts of conflict, usually violent.
                        3. Decrease the legitimacy of the government.
                        4. Give power to those that are willing to supply the banned item.


                        And in the end the vast majority of people still get and use the banned item.

                        If somebody could show me that the costs of the above is less than the cost trying to control a dangerous substance I would have to re-think my position.
                        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                          The private prison industry will never stop lobbying for the war on drugs.
                          |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                          XBL GT: Khan58

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                            Originally posted by TurkishDelight View Post
                            That movie was so far beyond retarded, bias, and un-informational. I simply cannot stand it...
                            This is true of ALL Michael Moore-on hack job films.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bowling For Columbine, Revisited

                              Originally posted by Beinseth View Post
                              Thats a pipe dream in the US. Making marijuana legal would lead to it being highly regulated. Which would end up making it just as unavailable as it is today and being sold like scripts. Which would turn out no different than it is today.
                              Except that we can regulate the distribution and quality of said drugs. And unless they're stolen, it's much cheaper to get script drugs legally than illegally (as it is with anything). I should also add that prices and regulation on cigarettes have been increasing steadily over the years and no black market has cropped up around them.

                              Making just about any other illict drug legal is just irresponsible and only supported by drug addicts.
                              Throwing people in jail for years on mandatory minimums and wasting millions of dollar into a never-ending war is much less irresponsible.....

                              Originally posted by Hambergler View Post
                              Funny, in America the more drugs in an area the more violence. I guess they do things differently in Mejiko. Heroin is cheaper then a Michelob lite now, but usually the price of things go up when they are scarce. I'm glad the drug war guys got it all figured out.
                              That's not causal though. High drug-usage areas also tend to be lower income and education neighborhoods which have higher rates in all crimes. This is like saying your car won't run because it's out of gas, but ignoring that someone stole the gas tank (rough neighborhood, I know).

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X