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The hell with the IRS!

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  • #16
    Re: The hell with the IRS!

    Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
    The bailouts look to cost about 1 trillion dollars. The personal income tax accounts for about 1 trillion in revenue. So we could have used the money wasted on bailouts to instead get rid of the personal income tax. If the bailout can be afforded, then so can that.
    Yes, but a minor problem would be that there would be no economy left for you to spend, save or invest your extra money in.

    Nobody likes these bailouts (at least not as far as I can see). Nobody wants to be here. But we are here, and there are no other options except total failure. The choice seems obvious, at least to most.

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    • #17
      Re: The hell with the IRS!

      No other options? Really? So we had no choice but to spend billions and billions on pork and earmarks in the stimulus bill? We had no choice but to raise fees on healthy businesses while funneling money into businesses that are still failing despite our best efforts? I just don't buy it -- we had plenty of choices, and its rhetoric like yours that attempts to scare people into choosing the plan most amenable to future Democratic political control of the country.

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      • #18
        Re: The hell with the IRS!

        you must spread some reputation around before giving it to kerostasis again.
        +1

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        • #19
          Re: The hell with the IRS!

          Originally posted by AMosely View Post
          Nobody likes these bailouts (at least not as far as I can see). Nobody wants to be here. But we are here, and there are no other options except total failure. The choice seems obvious, at least to most.
          Actually, there is an option besides total failure - we could try not bailing anyone out.

          Zap!
          A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

          "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

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          • #20
            Re: The hell with the IRS!

            This is the first year i really have sat down with the accountant in the company where my father works (he has been doing the family taxes for a long long time) and really decided to figure out what i owe, how i owe it and how much can i get taken off..........

            It's been very interesting......

            I have learned a lot, especially since I was supposed to send in quarterly estimates last year but was never notified........

            So this year I am unfortunately going to have to pay a bit more, and since i don't qualify for a social welfare tax thingamajig due to being almost 1,000 over the limit and also since i am not a single mom with 3 kids, i might have to ask my parents for some money, but i know that now that I fully understand, and am in a sense doing it with the accountant, I will be better prepared next year and it also made me become organized in regards to my financial state etc.

            The IRS is a tricky but i will say they are extremely organized. I only wish they had called me or mailed me saying I was overdue......

            I have many things that i could try to get exempt from but I don't want to be one of those people where a flag comes up...........
            Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
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            • #21
              Re: The hell with the IRS!

              I love how they charge us interest for underpaying quarterly estimates, but don't give us interest if we overpay.
              A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

              "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The hell with the IRS!

                Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                No other options? Really? So we had no choice but to spend billions and billions on pork and earmarks in the stimulus bill? We had no choice but to raise fees on healthy businesses while funneling money into businesses that are still failing despite our best efforts? I just don't buy it -- we had plenty of choices, and its rhetoric like yours that attempts to scare people into choosing the plan most amenable to future Democratic political control of the country.
                I'm not talking about the stimulus bill, I'm talking about the bailouts, which so far outshadow it by about 3:1. What are the choices you speak of?

                You don't buy my rhetoric? I don't buy the rhetoric that there were 'billions and billions' of pork and earmarks in the stimulus bill. There were no earmarks, and all of the claims of pork (the marsh mouse, etc) were found to be false. In the case of money directed at highway construction or power plants, those represent jobs - at least they do in my state - and they also represent benefits to infrastructure that plenty of people benefit from. I'm with Paul Krugman and a host of other economists - the debate isn't over (non)earmarks, it's over whether or not that stimulus bill was enough. It wasn't.

                To hell with the IRS? To hell with these fools screaming fiscal restraint when 45% of the the world's wealth has already been flushed down the toilet by this catastrophe (according to what the CEO of Blackstone said today). You don't start getting that back by sitting around on a fiscally conservative, loudmouthed, lazy fat ass.

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                • #23
                  Re: The hell with the IRS!

                  If taxes are good, then 100% taxes are better. If the government knows best how to spend our money, then ordinary citizens are too incompetent to spend it properly, and we should just have it all withheld. Clearly the government knows best how to run banks, just like it knows best how to build your next game computer. (Or, more likely, it knows that you shouldn't be gaming, and will give you a stripped down P2 with just enough power to vote them back into office with rigged electronic voting.)
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                  Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                  • #24
                    Re: The hell with the IRS!

                    Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                    If taxes are good, then 100% taxes are better.
                    Why would anyone believe this conditional statement is true? *rolls eyes* Excellent set up for the strawman... You imagine that your opponent believes this statement is true and then you tear it down. Good job, except that nobody believes it.

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                    • #25
                      Re: The hell with the IRS!

                      Yeah, I abbreviated the thought too much. I should say personal income tax, at least. (After all, there are other revenue sources that are more logically tied to what they pay for, like fees. The personal income tax is a blank check for any old pork some special interest wants. Little of what it's spent on is tied to the process of making an income.) I'm accused of not knowing how to spend my own money, so the government should take that decision away from me. So as long as I'm too irresponsible to spend 40% of my own money, why not take the other 60%?
                      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The hell with the IRS!

                        Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                        Yeah, I abbreviated the thought too much. I should say personal income tax, at least. (After all, there are other revenue sources that are more logically tied to what they pay for, like fees. The personal income tax is a blank check for any old pork some special interest wants. Little of what it's spent on is tied to the process of making an income.) I'm accused of not knowing how to spend my own money, so the government should take that decision away from me. So as long as I'm too irresponsible to spend 40% of my own money, why not take the other 60%?
                        You really think this or are you just being facetious?

                        Plus you got some odd numbers. Your income tax is 40%? The top rate is in the 30's. My effective was like 7%.

                        You need to get a good tax guy.
                        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                        • #27
                          Re: The hell with the IRS!

                          Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                          You need to get a good tax guy.
                          Gringo's never heard of the alternative minimum tax.

                          Or state and local income tax. He also doesn't consider payroll tax an income tax. Because if it comes directly out of your income, it's not an income tax... (?) The top Federal rate is 51%. That's income + payroll only. Tack on 8-10% for state income tax in places like CA-MA-NY.
                          Last edited by Nikolas; 03-12-2009, 03:30 AM.
                          A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                          "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The hell with the IRS!

                            Originally posted by Nikolas View Post
                            Gringo's never heard of the alternative minimum tax.

                            Whenever I take on extra work, I assume I get to keep half whatever I earn.

                            Where I live, I pay 35% income tax before payroll taxes. And yes, I have "a good tax guy."

                            Or state and local income tax. He also doesn't consider payroll tax an income tax. Because if it comes directly out of your income, it's not an income tax... (?) The top Federal rate is 51%. That's income + payroll only. Tack on 8-10% for state income tax in places like CA-MA-NY.
                            Then don't live in CA-MA-NY.

                            Payroll taxes? I will probably recoup them plus interest by the time I die.

                            The ATM does suck and needs to be abolished.

                            In the end taxes are not that bad. If they where that bad the people would vote in somebody that promised to get rid of them. But the fact is we just elected somebody that promised to raise taxes. Even in the most conservative of times they reduce the top rate by only a few percent. Why? Because the people generally like the way things are. And the way things are requires significant tax rates.

                            So complain all you want, they are not going away. They are not even going to go down a lot. I doubt we ever, and I mean ever, see taxes significantly lower than what we have now.

                            So what are you hoping to accomplish? It is like yelling at the weather. It just isn't going to do any good.

                            And taxes are good!

                            Lets say the government takes 50% of your money. Money is just a abstraction of value. I would say that society easily provides 50% of ones value in life. (Actually I would say society provides closer to 75% of life's value. And I am a anti-social hermit.) A democratic government is just the organizational power of society manifested so the government is retrieving compensation for it gives you.

                            Said democratic (with a little d) government will always tax until it hurts.

                            *Edit

                            I suppose that there must be the nagging voice that hates taxes no matter the benefits. Probably is good that the voice exists. Like the horrible case of diarrhea you get when visiting a underdeveloped country it reminds us that we have to actually participate and make sure things are kept clean.
                            Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 03-11-2009, 10:59 PM.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The hell with the IRS!

                              What was that about majority rule again?

                              From a recent CBO report, here are effective tax rates (total taxes divided by total income) for 2005, the most recent year available:

                              Lowest quintile: 4.3 percent
                              Second quintile: 9.9 percent
                              Middle quintile: 14.2 percent
                              Fourth quintile: 17.4 percent

                              Percentiles 81-90: 20.3 percent
                              Percentiles 91-95: 22.4 percent
                              Percentiles 96-99: 25.7 percent
                              Percentiles 99.0-99.5: 29.7 percent
                              Percentiles 99.5-99.9: 31.2 percent
                              Percentiles 99.9-99.99: 32.1 percent
                              Top 0.01 Percentile: 31.5 percent



                              Maybe the rich should get ahold of your "good tax guy"!

                              http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/...-and-poor.html
                              A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                              "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: The hell with the IRS!

                                Let's say me and 50 strangers go out to dinner at a fancy restaurant. We all throw 20% of our income on the table and then we get to order whatever we want. Of course everybody orders stuff that costs way more than $20. At the end of the meal, we're all deep in debt. But no single person is responsible for that, and there's no connection to what you threw on the table and what you ate. Really effective system for allocating resources.
                                Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                                snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                                Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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