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What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

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  • What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

    Oh my! Looks like these sorts of things can STILL happen even after you take the majority of guns away from the citizens. My heart goes out to all of the victims and their families.

    This brings up an interesting observation, though. People cite school shootings in America all the time to prove that guns are bad in the hands of the people or that America is just simply a violent culture. This, however, proves to me that no matter what level of gun control that is imposed or how pacifistic a country appears to be, violence can be inevitable. It truly is sad. Didn't Germany also do away with blood and a certain amount of violence in video games as well? I remember their version of CS:S being SO lame. I guess that didn't make much difference either.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29630925
    "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

  • #2
    Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

    That's a strawman if I've ever seen one. Seriously, if you want to convince people that more gun control is bad or doesn't help, then you need to stop offering really bad arguments.

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    • #3
      Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

      C'mon. I expect a better refutation from you than that, Sord. Are you tired or something?

      School shooting: I... don't really think this has any commentary on gun control. If gunpowder didn't exist we would still be running around with swords and poleaxes hacking folks to death. :P Am I saying that gun control is pointless? I don't know. Maybe. Whatever, doesn't matter, I have some videogames to attend to. :)

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      • #4
        Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

        I'm not sure what more "refutation" you want other than pointing out what the flaw in reasoning is. It's the strawman fallacy.

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        • #5
          Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

          Actually it's pretty simple - the more guns there are in public hands, the higher the probability that you'll get a catastrophe like this. In the Germany case, the kid got his gun right out of his dad's bedroom. The more guns there are in more dad's bedrooms, the more kids will be able to get the guns and use them.

          I'm not advocating complete gun control, but the analogy is pretty simple. If you ask me, there should be criminal penalties against gun owners who fail to secure their firearms - licensed or not.

          Last week, an 8th grader at a public school near me brought his dad's loaded 9mm pistol to school. The kid is in jail now, and thank goodness the gun was not fired. I think his dad should be in jail too - at least for criminal negligence.

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          • #6
            Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

            Are there ever school tragedies involving other things a dad (or mom) owns that a kid shouldn't be playing with? Like power tools?
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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            • #7
              Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

              Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
              Are there ever school tragedies involving other things a dad (or mom) owns that a kid shouldn't be playing with? Like power tools?
              Kitchen knives? But power tools and knives (or any melee weapon) probably aren't effective weapons of massacre in the hands of a kid.

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              • #8
                Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                I am from Germany and the shooting was only about 1hr away from here.

                Its true that the 17 year old guy stole the gun from his father who was in the gun club and legally had that weapon. Weapons here get restricted really hard. You cannot get one for hunting or sport shooting until you are 21. If you are under 25 you have to go through an assessment first before being allowed one.


                The problem yeah well.... if someone really wants a gun there are always ways. We have alot of trouble with old russian weapons that are iillegally flowing into the country from the east.



                Our Videogames have a really hard cencorship. Its so bad that videogame company often release a German only version because they fear they could lose a lot of money and get negative press if their game gets cencored. This also applies to movies in TV where we sometimes have minutes of content missing.

                Some Examples:
                Command & Conquer = All Soldiers are Robots
                Turok = All Soldiers are Robots
                Team Fortress 2 = No blood and "gibbed" parts are plush toys
                Left 4 Dead = Less blood



                .... on the other side we are VERY lax with sexual content. There are nude and uncencored breasts being shown in the afternoon TV.

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                • #9
                  Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                  Yup. I remember after the 2002 school shooting in Germany, the politicians there freaking out and using video games as a scapegoat. I wonder who or what they'll blame this time.
                  "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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                  • #10
                    Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                    Maybe they'll blame the breasts. Seems to be a good scapegoat in the US. :/
                    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                      Originally posted by Lyramion View Post
                      Some Examples:
                      Command & Conquer = All Soldiers are Robots
                      Turok = All Soldiers are Robots
                      Team Fortress 2 = No blood and "gibbed" parts are plush toys
                      Left 4 Dead = Less blood

                      .... on the other side we are VERY lax with sexual content. There are nude and uncencored breasts being shown in the afternoon TV.
                      Hmmm, boobs in the after noon and robot enemies or no boobs and human enemies. What a hard choice.

                      If god came down to me and asked "Which would you rather me banish for eternity, boobs or guns." I would not hesitate.
                      Im not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
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                      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
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                      • #12
                        Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post

                        If god came down to me and asked "Which would you rather me banish for eternity, boobs or guns." I would not hesitate.
                        I really like my gun, but I wouldn't hesitate either. :p

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                        • #13
                          Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                          Originally posted by sordavie View Post
                          I really like my gun, but I wouldn't hesitate either. :p
                          Oh, I am SO glad that I don't believe in god!

                          Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                          Actually it's pretty simple - the more guns there are in public hands, the higher the probability that you'll get a catastrophe like this. In the Germany case, the kid got his gun right out of his dad's bedroom. The more guns there are in more dad's bedrooms, the more kids will be able to get the guns and use them.
                          You're confused. It's a fact that the more kids that are not taught basic gun safety at a young age, the more kids will get the guns and abuse them. It's not possible to lock a gun up so that it cannot be accessed. You can make it difficult, but not impossible, to access it.

                          Or maybe it goes like this: The more unmedicated psychos there are outside of mental hospitals, the higher the probability that you'll get a catastrophe like this. Locking the loonies up will prevent this...

                          But you can keep on throwing meaningless but emotional statements out there if you want...
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                          • #14
                            Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                            I'm not even a big fan of boobs (I'm a leg guy) but if the Feds wanted to make that trade, I'd be hard-pressed to say no. :D I want to see 300 uncut in prime time. (Lena Headley ftw!)
                            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What's This? A school massacre in Germany?!

                              Originally posted by CingularDuality View Post
                              You're confused. It's a fact that the more kids that are not taught basic gun safety at a young age, the more kids will get the guns and abuse them. It's not possible to lock a gun up so that it cannot be accessed. You can make it difficult, but not impossible, to access it.

                              Or maybe it goes like this: The more unmedicated psychos there are outside of mental hospitals, the higher the probability that you'll get a catastrophe like this. Locking the loonies up will prevent this...

                              But you can keep on throwing meaningless but emotional statements out there if you want...
                              I'm confused? I guess I am, because I don't understand why senseless gun violence is such a problem in America.

                              I actually agree that kids - and adults - should be tought gun safety at any and every age. And it most certainly is possible to lock a gun up so it cannot be access by someone who doesn't have a key. If you could face criminal charges for not properly securing a weapon, you'd probably find a way to lock it up pretty well. I don't think that's a confused, meaningless, or emotional statement at all. Every law abiding citizen has a right to own a gun, but every citizen also has reasonable right to personal safety from the negligence of others.

                              But 'lock up the loonies?' That's a much better idea, because clearly the mentally ill are at the root of this problem. Talk about meaningless (and ignorant) statements.

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