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AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

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  • AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

    I just cannot get fired up over the 120 Mill in AIG Bonus money.... Maybe 10 years ago when Bonus money was un heard of..or maybe when we though the Financial companies were run correctly... But now... Heck no... I cannot believe anyone is surprise..
    And the politicians acting (and i mean ACTING) like they are offended..how dare you!. You are as much at fault as the Folks who drew up the contracts in the first place. And to threaten Subpoena's to get the information..Barney Frank you POS!

    These are LEGAL CONTRACTS drawn up before the Government jumped in.. Let it go..and future contracts can be criticized. But you or I do NOT want the government coming in after the fact on Civil matters and destroying contracts... We have a political hit put on these folks.. Threatening to tax the bonus's at 90% or whatever.. Again..spouting off before you think...Rewrite the tax code... Think of the Domino effect on that... I hope they get all their money and put it into a Huge ass SUV and dump the rest in an off shore account..

    I was of the opinion Government should have stayed out...and now I am sure of it.. Bankruptcy would have been the key... Clean up the junk that wasn't working..and the rest would be "Re-Acquired" by those who could handle it... I am sure it's not as easy as spelled out above..but there had to be a better answer then throwing $$ at it...

    Bleh!
    :madsmile:
    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
    ..now where did I put my keys?

  • #2
    Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

    I think the peoples reaction to it is way overblown. Those bonuses are like 1/1000 of 1% of the bailout money.

    Politicians reacting to it is also overblown, but they just reflect their constituents feelings. Frank is a goober but what you gonna do? Those that voted him in are just as important as you and I and they keep voting him in. So they must like his antics.

    I think what is happening is that most people can't fathom what is going on. They or somebody they know has lost their jobs. Their savings have been devastated. There is constant gloom and doom in the news. And they don't know who to blame.

    Those receiving the bonuses are people we can understand. They are getting millions of our dollars. They are personally benefiting during a period of national pain. From the national pain.

    They are the scape goats. They are being sacrificed to satisfy our lust for revenge.
    Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
    - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
    - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
    - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
    - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
    - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
    - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

      Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
      I think the peoples reaction to it is way overblown. Those bonuses are like 1/1000 of 1% of the bailout money.
      Funny thing is that the only people who have brought it up is the media and politicians.. I haven't bumped into the random pissed off person over this. I wonder if it's overblown to cover up the real disaster which is the Budget and all the bailouts..

      If they would have just addressed it and said "Legal contracts" nothing we can do..except hang a politician who wrote the section that OK'ed the bonuses.. But that won't happen..

      I want a bonus... Grrr..
      |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
      ..now where did I put my keys?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

        Originally posted by peardog View Post
        Funny thing is that the only people who have brought it up is the media and politicians.. I haven't bumped into the random pissed off person over this. I wonder if it's overblown to cover up the real disaster which is the Budget and all the bailouts..

        If they would have just addressed it and said "Legal contracts" nothing we can do..except hang a politician who wrote the section that OK'ed the bonuses.. But that won't happen..

        I want a bonus... Grrr..
        I think it was the media that is responsible, to a point.

        Media does not push a story if there are no viewers. Stories last as long as there is interest.

        The media did bring it up. But what if the media didn't bring it up? Would they then be blamed for being in the pocket of the executives getting the money?

        I just think these are troubling times and people are lashing out.
        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

          AIG sells money and insurance. Most everyone on the payroll are salesmen. Would you feel assured buying insurance or anything from AIG right now? Of course not. So the salesmen can't make any money. All the good people are going to go to companies that have capital and a better reputation. The bonuses that were given out are for past performance that these guys earned according to their contracts. Regardless of bonuses the good people are going to leave. The questions we should be asking is how can we help create an environment to make it possible for these companies to pay us back? Not hold a magnifying glass over them and burn everyones ass off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

            My only problem is what nut ever would create a contract that would payout millions when the company is next to bankrupt? Whoever wrote the initial contract was foolish not to include a clause to protect the company under hard economic times. Hell why aren't the bonuses tied to performance like almost every other company on earth? 'Retention Bonuses?' if you are so afraid of people jumping ship why not pay them a higher wadge? Oh 'it is just how business is done' Yeah right...

            We've all seen what Wall Street is about. Wall Street is all about screwing as many people out of their cash as possible. Now I could put it in the more politically correct way of it's all about earning the most off of your initial investment, but really its the same thing different brand.

            Wall Street used to be about risk and return, now it is only about return at any risk. That needs to change.

            ~ Draken

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

              Here is the real problem:

              Back in Sept. Geithner helped architect the original AIG bailout. If he didn't know about these bonuses then, which he did, then he's a fool.

              It was Geithner, as head of the New York Federal Reserve, who negotiated the AIG bailout last September. At that time, he could have sought to get bonuses repealed as part of the massive government loan.Ē
              http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/03...y4875789.shtml

              $150M in bonuses is the least of the problems. The Government is funneling BILLIONS of dollars through AIG to foreign banks. They have sent over $50B over seas and only $40B to domestic banks.

              Where is the outcry over that??? $50B vs $150M ?!? Hmmm...

              Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., says he agreed to a suggestion from the Obama administration and amended language to the economic stimulus plan so that such bonuses could continue to be paid.
              The politicians knew, besides they didn't even read the bill. So how can they be pissed off if they voted for something they didn't read?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                Everyone is part of the problem here. Regardless, this wasn't a smart move by AIG - giving millions of dollars in bonuses while they were begging the government for bailout money because they were struggling is pretty much symbolic of why Wall Street went to the crapper.

                This is a classic case of giving a homeless man a few bucks after he tells you he's going to starve to death and then watching him head straight for the liquor store.


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                  Originally posted by Global.Cooling View Post
                  Here is the real problem:
                  $150M in bonuses is the least of the problems. The Government is funneling BILLIONS of dollars through AIG to foreign banks. They have sent over $50B over seas and only $40B to domestic banks.

                  Where is the outcry over that??? $50B vs $150M ?!? Hmmm...
                  Just wagging the dog...
                  "I've been working since I was sixteen. I fought in two wars. Hell, I've killed people. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy it..."
                  -- Red Forman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                    Originally posted by RogueTheory View Post
                    This is a classic case of giving a homeless man a few bucks after he tells you he's going to starve to death and then watching him head straight for the liquor store.
                    Good analogy!
                    "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                      Originally posted by DrakenViator View Post
                      Hell why aren't the bonuses tied to performance like almost every other company on earth? 'Retention Bonuses?'
                      A lot of them are performance-related bonuses, or so I had heard. Keep in mind AIG has like seven different divisions, and most of them are either making money or breaking even. They've just got one or two divisions that are hemorrhaging billions and dragging everything else down with them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                        It's completely blown out of proportion. Obama and other politicians should have downplayed it, but their constituency seems to have overridden that. They are behaving as politicians do, feigning outrage while knowing deep down that this is a futile distraction.

                        That said, Geitner should have come clean, say the bonuses do have some validity as salary, and should have already (or long ago) re-negotiated these as terms of the bailout and clarified that this week. Was he or Hank Paulson negligent in that regard? It seems that way, this was a bullet they could have seen coming and had ample time to avoid. Should he be fired? No. He needs to stay right where he is and keep working at this 24x7.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                          A tax even Republicans can love.

                          House OKs 90% tax on AIG bonuses
                          Legislation would apply to all banks getting TARP bailout funds
                          By Ronald D. Orol & Rex Nutting, MarketWatch

                          WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Responding to the anger about $165 million in bonuses paid to AIG traders, the House approved a bill Thursday that would impose a punitive 90% tax on bonuses paid by American International Group Inc.
                          ...

                          The vote was 328-93, with about half of the Republicans joining almost all Democrats voting in favor.
                          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                            I am disappointed in my government representatives. But there's a silver lining to this -- it reinforces to the business community how dangerous it is to take money from the government. So perhaps some good can come from it, even though the legislation is bad in and of itself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: AIG Bonuses... Outrage..or Blown out of Porportion?

                              Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                              I am disappointed in my government representatives. But there's a silver lining to this -- it reinforces to the business community how dangerous it is to take money from the government. So perhaps some good can come from it, even though the legislation is bad in and of itself.
                              I see all of this as, ultimately, good.

                              The fear of heavy regulation is probably more effective than actual regulation. (Fear of the unknown and stuff.)

                              So hopefully we will get a bit more oversight of the hedge fund types and a whole bunch more fear (and humility maybe? yea, I know, silly thought) in the financial types.
                              Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                              - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                              - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                              - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                              - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                              - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                              - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                              Comment

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