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New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

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  • New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

    It's like having a nightmare (the Bush DoJ and NSA wiretapping) that your psychologist supposedly fixed (the November election). Still plenty of things on my list of good things Obama has done so far, but the bad list is growing. I want to know WTF is going on here. The DoJ response to the EFF wiretap lawsuit not only upholds the illegal immunity imposed by the Bush administration, but pulls the immunity blanket even higher. This is ridiculous - we cannot sue the government for illegaly eavesdropping on public communications because doing so (a lawsuit) would breach and/or jeapardize national security? Come clean, federal officials - are you protecting Americans or are you protecting yourselves? Or by 'national security' do you mean the sanity and frustration levels of your citizens when they find out that every word they type or say is being copied through an STA (Symantic Traffic Analyzer) 6400 that's been placed in every major communications facility in the U.S. by the NSA?

    Every defining attribute of Bush's radical secrecy powers -- every one -- is found here, and in exactly the same tone and with the exact same mindset. Thus: how the U.S. government eavesdrops on its citizens is too secret to allow a court to determine its legality.
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...ama/index.html

  • #2
    Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

    With all this why don't you think people and private organizations are pushing for encryption for all electronic communications?
    Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
    - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
    - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
    - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
    - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
    - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
    - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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    • #3
      Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

      Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
      With all this why don't you think people and private organizations are pushing for encryption for all electronic communications?
      If you dont think the NSA can break any publicly obtainable encryption system already I dont know what to say. The NSA is the organization that gets paid to crack nation-state encryption methods that are as closely held state secrets as there are. I think it's safe to say i-phone encryption or windows mail encryption methods are at a level of complexity or 10 below those and thus aren't difficult for them to break.

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      • #4
        Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

        Originally posted by Morganan View Post
        If you dont think the NSA can break any publicly obtainable encryption system already I dont know what to say. The NSA is the organization that gets paid to crack nation-state encryption methods that are as closely held state secrets as there are. I think it's safe to say i-phone encryption or windows mail encryption methods are at a level of complexity or 10 below those and thus aren't difficult for them to break.
        They are not as omnipotent as movies portray them. It has gotten to the point people treat them like magical ninjas.

        Yes, they could possibly crack most encryption (and I am not positive about that) given enough time, but there is no way they could crack the encryption of all the messages sent around the US.

        Still leaves the problem of they can mostly track where you are sending stuff.
        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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        • #5
          Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

          Originally posted by Morganan View Post
          If you dont think the NSA can break any publicly obtainable encryption system already I dont know what to say.
          Wow. Seriously, I recommend you do some research on encryption methods. This isn't Law and Order or CSI with "hack that IP address and get his DNS, then route through his firewall." With many forms of encryption, unless they have actual flaws in the way the public keys are handled (like NT4.0 and WEP), then the only way to bypass the encryption is through brute force password cracking.

          What crap like this does is let an enforcement agency force you to give them access without due process (this is if they can't get the info themselves), then they lay on some BS about National Security, and put you in jail for having the gall to expect your rights to be protected.

          Expecting Obama to give up this kind of power is expecting a politician to actually be concerned with the supreme law of the USA. And that's just not a reasonable expectation.

          Anyways, I think people who write legislation like this should be tried for rights violations or treason, but that's just me. It's not like we had the 4th amendment for a reason or anything.

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          • #6
            Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

            So much for "change".

            Just as the Pubbies have demonstrated an ability to spend even more irresponsibly than Democrats, the Dems have demonstrated a willingness to suppress individual rights beyond the dreams of Pubbies.

            This is why I considered it pointless to choose either party in November. Both trains go to Hell. The only choice is the route.
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

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            • #7
              Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

              Originally posted by TheFeniX View Post
              Expecting Obama to give up this kind of power is expecting a politician to actually be concerned with the supreme law of the USA. And that's just not a reasonable expectation.
              I'm just wondering when you think that the general mindset in the U.S. changed from frustration and a willingness to fight against this to resignation with this state of things?

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              • #8
                Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                So much for "change".
                I'm really tired of hearing this. Obama's administration has brought a significant amount of change, good and bad, and in unexpected ways. Obama is a tremendous change from George Bush. It is disturbing to see the ways in which he is not - at least with regard to the subject of secrecy and public privacy as presented in this recent DoJ opinion. I'm still waiting to hear Obama declare it in error..

                This is why I considered it pointless to choose either party in November. Both trains go to Hell. The only choice is the route.
                It's not pointless, but I agree that it's a generally a choice between two similar methods of governance and different sets of empty promises. Not hell, but two variations on big government.

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                • #9
                  Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                  Originally posted by Lusitano Louco View Post
                  I'm just wondering when you think that the general mindset in the U.S. changed from frustration and a willingness to fight against this to resignation with this state of things?
                  You assume there there aren't people fighting this right now and that there were somehow more people fighting in the past.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                    Originally posted by TheFeniX View Post
                    You assume there there aren't people fighting this right now and that there were somehow more people fighting in the past.
                    I don't assume anything. You said yourself that it isn't a reasonable expectation. I don't believe it's always been like that. At one point people stood by their word and were expected to. At some point it changed and people grumbled about it but somehow we got to a point where it is now the status quo and people expect nothing else.

                    So, to what extent are the people who think like that responsible for the status quo?

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                    • #11
                      Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                      If the NSA can crack 256-bit AES blowfish encryption in a reasonable timeframe (say a week) then I'd begin to worry.
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                      • #12
                        Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                        What is a 256-bit AES blowfish encryption? Are you just making stuff up, or perhaps using names and phrases that you have little understanding of?

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                        • #13
                          Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                          Eh...

                          Blowfish...

                          AES...

                          Really, they both keep the wife from seeing my pr0n collection, so what's the diff?
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                          • #14
                            Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                            I'm not sure there's any practical difference. But if you're going to talk about them, shouldn't you talk about them correctly? Otherwise, seems kind of pretentious to throw around words that make you sound more knowledgeable than you really are... Just my thought. Don't mind me. :)

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                            • #15
                              Re: New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ

                              Encryption methods today use extremely complex algorithms to encode the data. These algorithms are difficult enough to basically make it a waste of manpower to try to "crack" every single encoded message being shot around the United States.

                              A relatively-new method of encryption is quantum cryptography, which uses quantum mechanics fundamentals to create a key that cannot be broken.

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