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  • Keep your enemies closer

    I don't understand why there is apparently so much public (and therefore representative) oppositition to holding terrorism suspects in the U.S. prison system while they await trial. Our federal prison system currently holds terrorists like the Ted Kaczynski, Tim McVeigh and Richard Reid. Is this just perceived opposition - political posturing and maneuvering, or are people really afraid of these guys? Don't we know that's a little foolish by now? What ever happened to the old phrase 'keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer?'

    I don't have a problem with housing terrorism suspects in the U.S. - we're the ones accusing them, we've had ample time to determine whether or not we really are going to accuse them, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than locking them up in Guantanamo Bay. What is the fear with 'not in my backyard' - that these guys are going to break out 'Prison Break' style and terrorize your neighborhood? I don't think it works that way.

    It's not big government that's the problem anymore, it's the politics and fear that create the big, do-nothing government.

  • #2
    Re: Keep your enemies closer

    Our backyard is full.



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    • #3
      Re: Keep your enemies closer

      Originally posted by AMosely View Post
      What is the fear with 'not in my backyard' - that these guys are going to break out 'Prison Break' style and terrorize your neighborhood?
      That wouldn't surprise me. People have a lot of fear based on what they see on TV. That's where I think most fear of guns comes from. Due to TV, back in the 70's people regularly got back injuries from minor car accidents because the prevailing belief was that all cars blew up following a collision, and good samaritans "dragged them to safety". I remember when TV shows finally gave in to outrage over this and stopped depicting every car crash ending in an explosion.
      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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      • #4
        Re: Keep your enemies closer

        I am really not sure where the hysteria about holding them here came from. I know originally they were held over-seas for legal reasons, and its possible those legal reasons are still the real reason for objections to bringing them here -- but saying that out loud doesn't get you good PR, so they might just be provoking hysteria as cover. Really, your guess is as good as mine at this point.

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        • #5
          Re: Keep your enemies closer

          I'm uneducated on the legality of this. But what's the difference between holding them in Gitmo and holding them in the United States?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Keep your enemies closer

            This http://features.csmonitor.com/politi...on-guantanamo/ CSM article seems to try and provide answers to the questions I'm asking - that, basically, people (or so their representatives claim) think that because there's no concrete plan that these prisoners might be 'released into neighborhoods.' Like they're going to put them in a van and drop them off in the 'burbs? This world has gone completely insane. On a related note, has anyone seen/read the reports of Saudi Arabia's 're-education' schools for terrorists? I'd think it was a failure except they are showing a great deal of promise. America is too foolish for that - tied up in the same nitpicky nonsense politics that doomed this 'war on terror' from the beginning. All this talk of plans for prisoner release, but no time for any discussion on plans for taking these men on in the first place.

            Individually human beings are pretty bright, but as a group we all turn in to morons. An example - in searching articles related to this story, I came across a right-wing complaint that 'we don't have $80 billion to close Guantanamo right now.' 'More Obama spending.' Don't these fools realize that Guantanamo already costs over $100 million a year to operate? Like refinancing a mortgage (we have problems with that too), it often costs money in the short term to save money in the long term. But all that common sense is lost in politics, which only seem concerned with the here and now. It's almost enough to make you want to stop paying attention.

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            • #7
              Re: Keep your enemies closer

              Originally posted by Gillespie View Post
              I'm uneducated on the legality of this. But what's the difference between holding them in Gitmo and holding them in the United States?
              In America they would have same rights you and I do. In Cuba anything goes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Keep your enemies closer

                Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                Individually human beings are pretty bright, but as a group we all turn in to morons. An example - in searching articles related to this story, I came across a right-wing complaint that 'we don't have $80 billion to close Guantanamo right now.' 'More Obama spending.' Don't these fools realize that Guantanamo already costs over $100 million a year to operate? Like refinancing a mortgage (we have problems with that too), it often costs money in the short term to save money in the long term. But all that common sense is lost in politics, which only seem concerned with the here and now. It's almost enough to make you want to stop paying attention.
                Good thing nobody wants these guys to run our health care system. ;)
                Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Keep your enemies closer

                  Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                  Individually human beings are pretty bright, but as a group we all turn in to morons. An example - in searching articles related to this story, I came across a right-wing complaint that 'we don't have $80 billion to close Guantanamo right now.' 'More Obama spending.' Don't these fools realize that Guantanamo already costs over $100 million a year to operate? Like refinancing a mortgage (we have problems with that too), it often costs money in the short term to save money in the long term. But all that common sense is lost in politics, which only seem concerned with the here and now. It's almost enough to make you want to stop paying attention.
                  If those numbers are correct (and I have no idea if they are), it would take nearly 800 years to pay off that refinance and come out ahead. Considering the country is only about 230 years old, I'm don't think that's actually a smart economic move. I mean, every person in Guantanamo would die from old age before we could spend as much money on keeping them there as we'd spend on getting rid of them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Keep your enemies closer

                    Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                    What is the fear with 'not in my backyard' - that these guys are going to break out 'Prison Break' style and terrorize your neighborhood? I don't think it works that way.
                    Because people bought into enough propaganda after 9/11 to think that some ambiguous "terrorist" is going to kill them, even though you're probably 1000 times more likely to get killed by a repeat offender that was released from prison early to make room for more mandatory minimum drug sentences.

                    It's not big government that's the problem anymore, it's the politics and fear that create the big, do-nothing government.
                    It's both. Crap like the Patriot Act and Assault-Weapons Ban, among the ton of other worthless legistlation passed, is what happens when you get a big "do something NOW at the expense of sanity" government.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Keep your enemies closer

                      I think this is issue is part of a larger plan.

                      I truly believe that Cheney et. al. work very hard for two things. Get the American people scared poopless of boogie men (terrorists in this case) and to consolidate power of the executive branch.

                      Does anybody really think that Cheney believes putting the terrorists in American prisons increases the risk of terrorist attacks?*

                      The ability to scare Americans allows them to use the fear even when they are not in power. Right now this issue is all kinds of problems for Obama and his plans. Cheney and his crew don't have to do much to greatly influence the goings on in Washington.

                      I think Cheney is turning out to be actually and truly evil.
                      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                      • #12
                        Re: Keep your enemies closer

                        I personally like how one of the California Senators (or was she a Rep?) stood up and acted like a true steward of our great country. She said we should put them in Colorado. :D

                        Oh and Mosely's quote involved some Republican hyperbole, Obama only needs $80 million to close the facilities at Guantanamo Bay. So that's an "instant" savings of $20 million if he's other figure is correct and not just Democratic hyperbole. :p


                        I'm surprised a group of Senators and Represenatives don't gang up on a single state and force it through that way. I mean isn't that how the whole wolves and sheep thing works?
                        Last edited by Birdman1011395; 05-21-2009, 07:14 PM. Reason: Sourcing the $100 mill thingie
                        BF 2142:|TG| Birdman10113
                        CoD4: |TG|Birdman

                        Let's put the badges here...

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                        • #13
                          Re: Keep your enemies closer

                          Originally posted by Gillespie View Post
                          I'm uneducated on the legality of this. But what's the difference between holding them in Gitmo and holding them in the United States?
                          it's essentially how Hambergler put it, in the U.S. they ARE governed under the U.S. Constitution, Regardless of being in captivity or terrorist or what have you.

                          So essentially that's the Constitution + the Bill of Rights, etc. etc. etc.


                          Now, When you have prisoners on foreign soil, those prisoners are no longer under the government of that constitution and anything goes inside of that loophole.


                          for example Torture, which Gitmo did plenty of. so the big thing with moving them here is that Loophole is GONE, No torture.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Keep your enemies closer

                            Originally posted by Hambergler View Post
                            In America they would have same rights you and I do. In Cuba anything goes.
                            Bingo!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Keep your enemies closer

                              I live across the bay from San Quentin (northern California), which has been closed down. How about re-opening it and putting them there? Surely the locals would love the infusion of Federal money to support a prison? The guards and other personnel are gonna spend their money locally, and odds are that prisoner supplies will be purchased locally. Locals love it when military bases go in, after all.
                              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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