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  • Mancow say water boarding torture

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0[/media]

    Now if we could just get Cheney, Hannity and the other to get a little water boarding we might come to some conclusion.

    In fact maybe we could say to Cheney "You stand up to water boarding for 60 seconds, one little minute and you get a pass on all your evilness."
    Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 05-24-2009, 07:37 PM.
    Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
    - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
    - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
    - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
    - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
    - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
    - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

  • #2
    Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

    It's splitting hairs. Of course it's torture. It's like Clinton saying that he once used marijuana, but "did not inhale". Or his entire impeachment trial where he was asking for the definition of "but" and stuff like that. I'm sure there are loads of examples in the history of politics. It's like a "wink wink nudge nudge" sort of deal.

    Was it necessary? Was it wrong? Those are questions that can be avoided thanks to everybody arguing over whether it was torture or not.

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    • #3
      Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

      I think many, many people never considered it torture. They thought it was "pouring water on your face".

      Torture is wrong. Has that ever been doubted?

      You are correct, though. The real question from the very beginning should have been "is it necessary, is it being scared and committing rash acts or is it vindictive sadism?".

      I think with was somewhere between rash and sadistic. Where in that continuum I do not know.
      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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      • #4
        Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

        Isn't 'drowned' a success word, like 'found'?

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        • #5
          Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

          Originally posted by sordavie View Post
          Isn't 'drowned' a success word, like 'found'?
          Probably, but I'm sure they're careful not to use words such as "drown[ed]" in the vocabulary to describe waterboarding.
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          • #6
            Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

            Mancow said he drowned when he was a kid.

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            • #7
              Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

              Originally posted by sordavie View Post
              Mancow said he drowned when he was a kid.

              He must have been reborn or something.....
              |TG-X|Turkish

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              • #8
                Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                Off-topic, but I read somewhere that - technically - drowning does not kill you. You suffocate underwater. Nobody dies from drowning.

                Just a random tidbit.

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                • #9
                  Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                  Originally posted by Gillespie View Post
                  Off-topic, but I read somewhere that - technically - drowning does not kill you. You suffocate underwater. Nobody dies from drowning.

                  Just a random tidbit.
                  I suppose you could get even more technical than that and say that the suffocation doesn't kill you, and break it down even further at the cellular level. In the end I suppose it makes little difference.....
                  |TG-X|Turkish

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                  • #10
                    Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                    But to drown is die by asphyxiation due to a liquid. Anyway, that was my first reaction to the video - surprise that he's talking and looking alive, given that he drowned.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                      Just curious but has anyone actually died from water boarding?
                      "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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                      • #12
                        Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                        This seems like a public relations stunt, and I would bet that Mancow's ratings needed a boost. But, for Mancow, a very conservative radio host, to admit that waterboarding is torture, represents a huge shift in his politics. This shift toward the Libertarian/Ron Paul side of the party is becoming more prevalent every day as the Republican Party has absolutely no future with their current strategy. Fox News now has a weekly internet show called Freedom Watch, hosted by liberty minded Judge Napolitano. This I would have never expected from Fox News. But this is probably the only future they have as the neo-con rhetoric looses its luster.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                          Originally posted by Gillespie View Post
                          Was it necessary? Was it wrong? Those are questions that can be avoided thanks to everybody arguing over whether it was torture or not.
                          More importantly, did it actually help?

                          For all the debate, and for all the international good will the US has lost because of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Waterboarding, Extraordinary Renditions, they better have provided some pretty amazing intelligence.

                          If it turns out that they provided little intelligence that wasn't known by just asking nicely, the net effect was a negative and it shouldn't have been used.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                            It's also worth remembering that Mancow wasn't waterboarded. He had water poured on his face for 6 seconds. In the real thing, it wouldn't have stopped. There would be no toy cow to throw.

                            http://www.docudharma.com/diary/1370...-waterboarding
                            Your feet are shackled, and so are your wrists. When you were lead into the room you saw that it did not have the usual table, this room had a board, and a drain in the floor. You are blindfolded by the guards and roughly forced to lie on the wet wooden board. Even though you are shackled they tie you down to the board with three ropes, one across your chest, on across your waist and one across your legs. You are now completely unable to move, your head is below the level of your feet making the blood rush to your head.

                            You can hear them moving around and hear a hose running, filling a bucket of water. Your heart begins to race as your mouth is forced open and a wet rag is stuffed inside. There is enough clothe that it fills your mouth, and prevents your teeth from meeting, even at the back of your mouth. You feel a person sitting next you on the board, and they put their hands on your stomach, just above your diaphragm and push down, keeping you from taking a deep breath through your nose. You sense someone else standing above your head, and then the water starts to pour over your face. Not a little, but a torrent of water, it is running up your nose, and you can not breath! Your gag reflex kicks in, but the rag in your mouth does not let you gag.

                            Your body begins to convulse, convinced in the most primitive of reflexes to try to do anything to get more air! You thrash but the ropes and shackles have you completely immobilized. You feel the water hitting your face, as the person on the bench presses down on your diaphragm, forcing what little air you have out, not in. You are now sure that you are going to die, that you are going to drown, not an abstract, but for real, and right now. Your chest buns with the need for more air, your eyes tear under the blindfold as you struggle to get one more breath.

                            You are no longer a rational human, you are now just a survival machine, ready to beg anyone, do anything to make the pain stop and get just one more breath. The water stops falling on you. You suck air in through your nose and try to suck it in through you mouth. Both bring more water along with the small amount of air you can get. You hear the hose running again and know that this is not over, it is just starting. Your heart is going like a trip hammer, and you are in a state of terror, like nothing you have ever experienced or thought of. You know if and when they ask you something, you will do or say anything, anything to prevent them from doing it again. Then the hands push on your stomach, and the water starts falling again.

                            You struggle, trying to hold your breath, but the gag reflex kicks in again, and again you become more animal than man as you struggle for breath your body wracked with pain and convulsively struggling to get free to breath.
                            It'd be far more interesting, and more informative, to have someone voluntarily waterboarded for say an hour, and then asked about the whole experience afterward.

                            These stunts that Hitchens, Mancow et al have participated in create the illusion that the detainees could quit at any time and surrender their information. Instead you waterboard them for hours or days, and then ask them the question or it'll start over again.

                            Is that torture? Does it matter?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mancow say water boarding torture

                              Originally posted by Iamthefallen View Post
                              These stunts that Hitchens, Mancow et al have participated in create the illusion that the detainees could quit at any time and surrender their information.
                              I don't think they ever gave the impression that detainees could quit whenever they wanted. At least not Hitchens.


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