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  • US In Afghanistan

    Well at least you're actually fighting terrorists now.

    Thoughts? Wondering about perception in the US about this move. Sick of the fighting and want out or supportive?
    Anger is a gift - Malcolm X


  • #2
    Re: US In Afghanistan

    People are too busy crying about Michael Jackson.

    Really, though, those of us following the wars we are involved in (which I fear is a decreasing percentage of the population these days) knew this was coming. You don't put 30K more troops into a small country to have them sit around playing cards. I just hope it is enough - we've made some mistakes about troop numbers in the past, hopefully not to be repeated. This battle should have taken place years ago - not just in terms of the US but Pakistan as well. The Taliban and what is left of Al Qaeda needs to go and has needed to go - much more than Hussein ever did.

    The bigger question is how US and NATO troops will handle the aftermath - this is also an area in which mistakes were made in the past. Hearts and minds is a much harder battle than that of sheer force. With an election coming up on August 20, it's going to be important to stabilize the population quickly and hold the Taliban at bay.

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    • #3
      Re: US In Afghanistan

      Hey I'm crying about Micheal Jackson, but it hasn't stopped me from finding out about this :D.
      Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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      • #4
        Re: US In Afghanistan

        So whatever happened to President Obama's campaign promises of pulling the troops out ASAP. Or have his loyal supporters conveniently forgotten about that.
        "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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        • #5
          Re: US In Afghanistan

          Originally posted by SharinganTH1422 View Post
          Well at least you're actually fighting terrorists now.

          Thoughts? Wondering about perception in the US about this move. Sick of the fighting and want out or supportive?
          This is a very bizarre statement. We've been fighting in Afghanistan continuously for some 7 1/2 years now. We've been fighting terrorists continuously for some 7 1/2 years, both there AND in Iraq. What do you think has changed exactly?

          Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
          So whatever happened to President Obama's campaign promises of pulling the troops out ASAP. Or have his loyal supporters conveniently forgotten about that.
          That was specifically Iraq troops. He never promised to pull out of Afghanistan -- he actually promised to do MORE fighting there, under the premise that Afghanistan was the real battle and Iraq was just a distraction. Of course, we haven't pulled out of Iraq either, so....

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          • #6
            Re: US In Afghanistan

            Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
            This is a very bizarre statement. We've been fighting in Afghanistan continuously for some 7 1/2 years now.
            Sure, but not as much as Iraq. In fact the US forces (especially their air support) have been extremely important in Afghanistan, but there were far fewer forces when compared to Iraq (especially in terms of troops). The shift in the importance of Afghanistan is what I'm referring to.

            Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
            We've been fighting terrorists continuously for some 7 1/2 years, both there AND in Iraq. What do you think has changed exactly?
            You're fighting insurgents in Iraq, not terrorists. The few Al Qaeda and Taliban in Iraq (compared to Afghanistan and Pakistan) came into Iraq after the US invasion.
            Last edited by SharinganTH1422; 07-03-2009, 08:57 AM.
            Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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            • #7
              Re: US In Afghanistan

              Originally posted by SharinganTH1422 View Post
              You're fighting insurgents in Iraq, not terrorists.
              Yes, because if someone bombs a market in Afghanistan they are terrorist. If they bomb a market in Iraq, they are an insurgent freedom fighter and insurgents only bomb markets filled with enemy combatants.
              |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

              XBL GT: Khan58

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              • #8
                Re: US In Afghanistan

                Terrorist = Al Qaeda/Taliban in my eyes, i.e. groups who are a danger to other countries, and who would target their civilian populations. Insurgents did not bomb the World Trade Centre.
                Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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                • #9
                  Re: US In Afghanistan

                  It was actually president bush in Dec. 2008 who said we would have policies in order to begin withdrawls from Iraqi cities as soon as June 09.

                  I'm in the military, so my answer is fairly obvious. But I'll spell it out: it's time for some finality in the Afghanistan theater of operations. This push could really make all the difference for the Commanders in Afghanistan who've been BEGGING for more troops for 3 or 4 years now...
                  Skud


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                  • #10
                    Re: US In Afghanistan

                    Originally posted by SharinganTH1422 View Post
                    Terrorist = Al Qaeda/Taliban in my eyes, i.e. groups who are a danger to other countries, and who would target their civilian populations. Insurgents did not bomb the World Trade Centre.
                    So the insurgents that bomb funeral processions and markets filled with women and children, are not "bad guys"?

                    I think the real issue is, it's easier to market killing people in an opium field than killing people in an oil field. Drugs are bad after all and we could possible not gain anything by controlling the worlds opium supply like we could with the oil supply.
                    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                    XBL GT: Khan58

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                    • #11
                      Re: US In Afghanistan

                      Originally posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
                      So the insurgents that bomb funeral processions and markets filled with women and children, are not "bad guys"?
                      Ummm, when did I say that? I said you're fighting terrorists now, I didn't say you're fighting "bad guys" now. And FYI those "bad guys" are as a result of the invasion. Iraq was one of the most peaceful and developed nations in the Middle East before Britain and the USA invaded, but that's something else entirely. If the "war on terror" (a silly idea as it is, but let's roll with it) is what the USA are after, Iraq was and is not the place to be. However we have to consider that the countries involved in the invasion have gone into Iraq, blown it to pieces and now they're leaving and patting themselves on the back because "look how wonderful we are, we spread democracy!" so I have sympathy for the idea that it would be wrong to "cut and run". Of course the difficulty is the new Government and thousands of troops are being asked to mop up the stupid mistakes of a previous administration. Either way it's a lose-lose, either Iraq can be helped at the cost of serious financial drains on the economy as well as more suffering for troops and their families, or bags can be packed and Iraq left to perhaps fall into the wrong hands, or even just into chaos, only to become another danger to the West 20 years down the line. Either way innocent Iraqis will probably die/be oppressed/will live in poverty.

                      Operation Iraqi Freedom ftw.
                      Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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                      • #12
                        Re: US In Afghanistan

                        Originally posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
                        I think the real issue is, it's easier to market killing people in an opium field than killing people in an oil field. Drugs are bad after all and we could possible not gain anything by controlling the worlds opium supply like we could with the oil supply.
                        Speaking of hearts and minds, if we legalize heroin (a Bayer trademark) domestically, then Afghan farmers will have something to sell to feed their families instead of having to work for the Taliban.

                        http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resource...eroinmyths.htm
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                        • #13
                          Re: US In Afghanistan

                          I'm glad we're starting to pull out of Iraq like promised and focusing on the actual "War on Terror" we started in response to the 9/11 attacks. We are there to try and push the Taliban out of the region and keep it semi-secured for a chance at a democratic election come August 20th. The Taliban attacked us, this is their battle. Never was it Iraq or Saddam's battle with us. So, what we're doing so far is what I think should have been continued, and not delayed and put on hold for another venture into Iraq.

                          However, the important rule of thumb is.. "always support the fighting man".. even if you don't respect the war or certain move, never blame it on the Marine, soldier, sailor, or airman. They are there to serve and protect their country, not to go against your "political views." These are their lives, not just another news story.
                          |TG-Irr| JWG

                          Battlefield 2 - Project Reality

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                          • #14
                            Re: US In Afghanistan

                            Originally posted by JWG View Post
                            However, the important rule of thumb is.. "always support the fighting man".. even if you don't respect the war or certain move, never blame it on the Marine, soldier, sailor, or airman. They are there to serve and protect their country, not to go against your "political views." These are their lives, not just another news story.
                            It's a variation on "guns don't kill people": Soldiers don't kill people. It's the politicians and voters who send them who kill people. Soldiers are "just" weapons. Highly-sophisticated weapons, but they have virtually no discretion in what they get used on.

                            Hence, I see no problem with assassination of political leaders and their backers as a military strategy. Instead of shooting the "gun" out of someone's hand, shoot for center of mass. In this case, that would be the politicians and voters who sent the soldiers.
                            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                            • #15
                              Re: US In Afghanistan

                              Should we also support the soldiers who go beyond their orders to rape and massacre?

                              Should we support soldiers who obey orders they know are wrong? (Hopefully that's rarely happened for US soldiers, but it happens often to soldiers of other countries.)

                              Perhaps it's an okay rule of thumb. But if it's a rule of thumb, don't put the universal quantifier 'always' in your statement, since rules of thumb don't always work.

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