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  • Thumbs up to Florida

    It was passed over a week ago, but I just ran across it.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/050406/21/tual.html :icon14:

  • #2
    Re: Thumbs up to Florida

    and next week ladies and gentlemen we're going to pass the "If they look at you weird, you can shoot me in the head" bill. Basically, if somebody looks at you weird, or just looks at you at all, you're allowd to shoot them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thumbs up to Florida

      If it moves kill it
      If it doesn't move kill it
      If it doesn't move but looks like it might move kill it

      Oh wait - thats the rules for deathmatch doom. Heh.

      Root
      BFCL TF2 league admin

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      • #4
        Re: Thumbs up to Florida

        huh...

        well what a bull law, if i shoot and kill you, who the hell will know you were threatening me or not?

        ridiculous, reguardless of gun ownership which isnt a secret i dont agree with, this sounds perthetic, stand your ground bill, i mean even the name makes it heroic to shoot someone,

        who has to see this alledged threatening behavior?

        what counts as threatening behavior?

        what stops me from shooting you and saying i felt threatened?

        at what length must i be threatened (by a gun, knife fists or just plain old verbal cussing)?

        this just sounds like another accident waiting to happen.


        www.TeamElement.com

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        • #5
          Re: Thumbs up to Florida

          You guys are trying to argue against this law based on a biased news article? C'mon...

          Read the bill here.

          It's not unreasonable:
          Protection of Persons/Use of Force: authorizes person to use force, including deadly force, against intruder or attacker in dwelling, residence, or vehicle under specified circumstances; provides that person is justified in using deadly force under certain circumstances; provides immunity from criminal prosecution or civil action for using deadly force; defines term "criminal prosecution", etc. Creates 776.013,.032; amends 776.012,.031.
          I'm confused, though, as most of the news articles are referencing this related bill which the Florida House website says hasn't been voted on:
          Protection of Persons and Property: Authorizes a person to use force, including deadly force, against an intruder or attacker in a dwelling, residence, or vehicle under certain circumstances; creates a presumption that a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm exists; creates a presumption that a person acts with the intent to use force or violence; provides that a person is justified in using deadly force under certain circumstances; declares that a person has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force in certain circumstances; authorizes a law enforcement agency to investigate the use of deadly force but prohibits the agency from arresting the person unless the agency determines that there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful; provides for the award of attorney's fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and other expenses to a defendant in a civil suit who was immune from prosecution for justifiable use of force.
          I certainly like the second one better...

          And I'd like to know what exactly is unreasonable about either of these bills...
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          • #6
            Re: Thumbs up to Florida

            Originally posted by DudeMan
            huh...
            We've had this in Texas since the inseption of the CHL law.

            well what a bull law, if i shoot and kill you, who the hell will know you were threatening me or not?
            Witnesses and forensic evidence.

            ridiculous, reguardless of gun ownership which isnt a secret i dont agree with, this sounds perthetic, stand your ground bill, i mean even the name makes it heroic to shoot someone,
            The bill states the fact that no person should be forced to outrun a violent criminal before defending themselves. Would you turn your back on a guy with a knife who looks like he can run track? Don't get me wrong, for a fat guy, I can "book it" when the need arises. On the other hand, my mother couldn't. I've told her numerous times if some psycho tries to stab, shoot, rape her: she needs to start firing center mass.

            who has to see this alledged threatening behavior?
            Depends, but needless: if forensics find 15 9mm rounds in his back, you won't be going home for a while. You'd be surprised how much professionals can put together with ballistics. Really cool stuff.

            what counts as threatening behavior?
            "I'm going to kill you" as he pulls a knife. There's no hard law in place because life is rarely black and white.

            what stops me from shooting you and saying i felt threatened?
            Maybe witnesses, morality, situational variables. What's to stop me from beating some guy to death for looking at me funny: the fact that your average citizen is not a gun crazy serial killer. Anyone (well, those that have half a brain) who carries a gun legally knows how much they have at stake by pulling that trigger.

            You act like I can just shoot some guy triying to rob me and they throw a parade and I get a free trip to Hawaii. It's not something most people take lightly.

            at what length must i be threatened (by a gun, knife fists or just plain old verbal cussing)?
            Verbal attacks never constitute the use of deadly force. Now, some guy saying "I'm going to crack your skull open" as he advances with a bat: would constitute the use of deadly force.

            This law changes nothing Texan's haven't already had the ability to do. It just says that you don't have to risk turning your back to an "attacker (note: not some guy you were talking smack to, or is shouting racist comments at you, he's an attacker: hence his goal is to inflict bodily harm upon you.)" before responding using force.

            this just sounds like another accident waiting to happen.
            Yea, well so is letting 16 year-olds drive, having the speed limit at 70 mph, and letting Micheal Jackson out of jail.

            Now, I'm going to break down this article because Yahoo's writers are stupid:

            Lawmakers in the US state of Florida have passed a bill that would allow a gun owner to shoot an attacker on the street in self-defence.
            Bzzt wrong! I'll tell you why: a gun owner cannot carry a loaded gun on the street.
            Under what its Republican sponsor calls the Stand Your Ground bill, gun licence holders over 21 years of age who feel threatened in public can shoot to protect themselves, without trying to escape first
            This wording is horrible. These two quotes shold be put together and you get the whole deal.

            It should read: "A licensed gun carrier can fire upon an attacker without trying to escape first." They broke it up probably due to either idiot writers, or anti-gun sentiment.

            This says you don't have to expose yourself to un-do risk before defending yourself from an attacker.

            Florida Governor Jeb Bush says the bill is a good anti-crime measure.
            He's right, but his name is Jeb, so that detracts from it.

            Critics say it will boost gun sales and turn the state into something resembling the wild west.
            Yea well, whoever said this is an idiot.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thumbs up to Florida

              YOU KNOW WHAT, IM NOT EVEN GOING TO BOTHER,

              this law would (thank god) never be passed here, you can shoot who you want, as long as it is not in my direction.


              www.TeamElement.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                Originally posted by DudeMan
                YOU KNOW WHAT, IM NOT EVEN GOING TO BOTHER,
                Which would be fine, considering we all know you stand on gun ownership....


                Originally posted by DudeMan
                this law would (thank god) never be passed here,
                Obviously not, considering most citizens can't have guns there...



                Originally posted by DudeMan
                you can shoot who you want,as long as it is not in my direction.
                As long as you weren't threatening someone with bodily harm on a Florida street, chances are, you wouldn't have to worry about it...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                  Originally posted by phyllis
                  Which would be fine, considering we all know you stand on gun ownership....




                  Obviously not, considering most citizens can't have guns there...





                  As long as you weren't threatening someone with bodily harm on a Florida street, chances are, you wouldn't have to worry about it...

                  sorry phyllis but... well duh!!!! if you cant own guns the law is ridiculous.

                  yeah if i turn to you and say im gonna kill you, you can shoot me.. stupid law. everybody says **** they dont mean,


                  www.TeamElement.com

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                  • #10
                    Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                    I would suggest that retreating, with or without pointing a gun often is a sensible way to deal with a dangerous situation (but not always). If you think looking like a wuss is worse than someone getting seriously injured or dying, you have your priorities wrong IMO. However, if your life is threatened, running away often isn't the most sensible thing to do. Sometimes you have to fight and if you have a gun, you might as well use it.

                    I am against gun carrying in general but assuming you aren't, I think this law is a pretty good idea.
                    Wintermute

                    Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                      Originally posted by DudeMan
                      yeah if i turn to you and say im gonna kill you, you can shoot me.. stupid law. everybody says **** they dont mean,
                      Did you even read the law? Nowhere does it say that you can shoot someone just because they say "I'm gonna kill you".

                      Sheesh... :icon_roll
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                      • #12
                        Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                        Originally posted by DudeMan
                        yeah if i turn to you and say im gonna kill you, you can shoot me.. stupid law. everybody says **** they dont mean,
                        Once again: Verbal attacks never constitute the use of deadly force. Now, some guy saying "I'm going to crack your skull open" as he advances with a bat: would constitute the use of deadly force.

                        Do you just not care to read on this, or is this some kind of on-going Devil's Advocate thing you've had going?

                        You're looking at this from the stance of a 20-something adult male in his prime. Your comments reflect this: "You should always try to run." Have you ever considered that there are people out there in which running is not an option?

                        Ask a 57-year old women why she didn't try to out-run a 25-year-old with a knife before she shot him. What chance on God's green earth does she have of out-running him? So, you're saying she should have to turn her back to an armed man trying to inflict harm upon her before she defends her life?

                        Criminals are getting increasingly more violent. And it's not the polices job to protect individual citizens (as handed down by a supreme court). People need the ability to defend themselves. I don't have to worry about it as much, because I am reasonably fit: I can book it. Plus being 6 foot and 200 lbs, people don't tend to mess with me.

                        My mother isn't a 6 foot male adult able to out-fight or out-run an attacker.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                          Originally posted by TheFeniX
                          Criminals are getting increasingly more violent. And it's not the polices job to protect individual citizens (as handed down by a supreme court). People need the ability to defend themselves.
                          Which is exactly why the common citizen needs to be able to defend him/herself without having to serve a life sentence over it. There is no reason that one should have to walk down the street unarmed, and at the mercy of a criminal, who by the way would be carrying a weapon whether the law said he could or not.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                            correct me if im wrong but prior to this law being enacted. In florida you absolutely HAD to retreat if you were being threatened. Until the point where retreat was impossible? Only THEN could one defend himself or property?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thumbs up to Florida

                              Originally posted by section-8
                              correct me if im wrong but prior to this law being enacted. In florida you absolutely HAD to retreat if you were being threatened. Until the point where retreat was impossible? Only THEN could one defend himself or property?
                              I dunno about using deadly force to protect property... That sounds a bit screwy. Your home, perhaps, but not property.

                              Otherwise, I think you're right. The problem is that running/retreating often escalates the situation.

                              Wha? How can this be, you might ask?

                              Well, criminals carefully choose their victims. They prey on people that look weak, and I don't just mean physically weak. Once they've made their choice, if after confronting their victim, he/she tries to retreat/escape, it often reinforces in their mind the fact that they have indeed chosen a meek victim. If they make their choice and the target instead stands their ground defiantly and confidently, thugs will often play it off and move on to a different victim.
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