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  • Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ela514IL5Y4[/media]
    Family seeks answers after N. Ga. pastor killed in drug sting

    Family and friends of a Lavonia minister gunned down Tuesday by an undercover police officer continue to look for answers about how he died.

    Stephens County Sheriff Randy Shirley said Jonathan Ayers, 29, was not the target of their sting operation and that authorities were looking for a woman they say Ayers dropped off minutes before the shooting. That woman, whose name has not been released, had been charged with cocaine possession and distribution, he said.

    Ayers’ family maintains he was not involved in illegal drug activity.

    “He is one of the Godliest men I’ve ever known,” his brother-in-law Matt Carpenter told AccessNorthGa.com. “We’re all shocked and absolutely do not believe he was involved in anything illicit or illegal there.”

    Carpenter also told AccessNorthGa.com that the family was first informed Ayers died in a traffic accident, and then that he had been shot. Hours later, they learned he died in an officer-involved shooting.

    Shirley said Wednesday that Ayers dropped off the sting suspect in downtown Toccoa around 2:30 p.m. and that two agents from the joint task force -- composed of officers from Stephens, Habersham and Rabun counties -- followed the pastor and attempted to question him.

    WNEG-TV has surveillance video showing Ayers casually entering a Shell convenience store in Toccoa around 2:30 p.m.

    According to that video, a black SUV carrying undercover officers pulls into the parking lot after Ayers left the store.

    The pastor tried to avoid them, Shirley said Wednesday, striking one of the agents after putting his car in reverse.

    “They yelled, ‘Police. Stop,’” Shirley said.

    Witnesses to the incident also said the officers identified themselves, said Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead.

    Shirley said Wednesday that Ayers maneuvered his car towards another agent in a “threatening manner.” However, that is unclear from the video.

    Shirley first said that one shot was fired by one of the three agents on the scene, striking the pastor in the upper torso. WNEG-TV reports that Shirley said the agent fired two shots into the car.

    Ayers drove off before losing control of the vehicle a block away, striking a telephone pole, Shirley said.

    Ayers was pastor of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Lavonia. On his blog, he wrote, “I have three loves in my life: Jesus Christ, my wife Abby, and the Church.”

    The couple was expecting their first child.

    Shirley would not reveal the identity of the woman arrested in the sting. The agent struck by the pastor’s vehicle was treated and released from a local hospital, Shirley said.

    “Jonathan would have wanted to witness to the police officers involved in the shooting,” his family said in a statement.

    The GBI is investigating the shooting. The task force agents involved have been placed on administrative leave with pay, Shirley said.
    I have utter contempt for the drug war itself, but I especially despise these state and federal drug task forces. They are way to reckless and have no regard for the rights and lives of Americans. Some may argue that the pastor should have stopped. But the real question is, did an inoccent man deserve to die for absolutely nothing? Other than the same old police rhetoric, he moved his car in a “threatening manner.”
    |TG-X| mp40x



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  • #2
    Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

    “They yelled, ‘Police. Stop,’” Shirley said.

    Witnesses to the incident also said the officers identified themselves, said Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead.

    Shirley said Wednesday that Ayers maneuvered his car towards another agent in a “threatening manner.” However, that is unclear from the video.
    It's mighty unfortunate but you can stop the unnecessary sob story.

    The police officer probably has a family too. Who is more important to you? A police officer or a pastor? Correct answer would be "neither," because nobody should have gotten hurt, but unfortunately someone did.

    You can claim someone is wreckless but how many times have you been put in a life threatening situation?
    Skud


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    • #3
      Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

      According to that video, a black SUV carrying undercover officers pulls into the parking lot after Ayers left the store.

      The pastor tried to avoid them, Shirley said Wednesday, striking one of the agents after putting his car in reverse.
      I would not comply with a black SUV with non-uniformed people identifying themselves as 'police' either.

      I agree the 'war on drugs' is now a war on regular people. How does a 'cocaine possession and distribution' investigation possibly justify lethal force on a person? Why do we allow the cops to kill bystanders when drugs are involved?
      |TG-6th|Snooggums

      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

        Originally posted by snooggums View Post
        How does a 'cocaine possession and distribution' investigation possibly justify lethal force on a person?


        it doesnt..him not stopping, and hitting an officer with his car(assault with a deadly weapon) justified lethal force



        Fate whispers to the warrior "You will not survive the storm."
        The warrior whispers back, "I AM the storm."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

          wow..so just watched the video

          "i dont know i think we give the benefit of the doubt to people who are devoting their lives to their religion"

          REALLY?




          Fate whispers to the warrior "You will not survive the storm."
          The warrior whispers back, "I AM the storm."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

            Just for clarification, since its apparent that people still cant seem to learn this:
            Osama BinLaden did not devote his life to religion. He is not fighting a holy war, even though he says he is. He is not wiping out enemies of his faith. He is intent on driving out western culture from the middle east. Its that simple. All of his actions are aimed toward that end. Islam is only in his plan because it gives him a scapegoat.

            Dont mock people if you dont really grasp the concept, please.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

              Originally posted by Charles Darwin View Post
              it doesnt..him not stopping, and hitting an officer with his car(assault with a deadly weapon) justified lethal force
              Provoked by a bunch of armed men jumping out of a black SUV that pulled up very quickly. If Ayers was already in his car and had the windows up, he likely did not hear what they were saying, just saw a black SUV full of armed men screeching to a halt beside him and coming at him. I would sure run over one of them to.

              What possible reason did they have to provoke the situation in this way?
              |TG-6th|Snooggums

              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                The people who kill themselves for his cause ARE devoted to their religion, and that was more my point that about bin laden himself..but I doubt anyone would recognize the faces of anyone but bin laden



                Fate whispers to the warrior "You will not survive the storm."
                The warrior whispers back, "I AM the storm."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                  Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                  Provoked by a bunch of armed men jumping out of a black SUV that pulled up very quickly. If Ayers was already in his car and had the windows up, he likely did not hear what they were saying, just saw a black SUV full of armed men screeching to a halt beside him and coming at him. I would sure run over one of them to.

                  What possible reason did they have to provoke the situation in this way?
                  they believed the lady had sold him cocaine?

                  the rule of thumb when you believe people might be armed is to go in at full force and then work down if they dont present a threat because its easier to go down than to go up

                  I think the drug war is just as retarded, but I dont fault cops for doing their job either



                  Fate whispers to the warrior "You will not survive the storm."
                  The warrior whispers back, "I AM the storm."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                    No they're not. They're devoted to "the cause". The same way that IRA members are devoted to "the cause". The same way that innumerable numbers of people in history have been devoted to some "cause" or another. Go talk to a devout muslim. I'm not talking about a zealot or an extremist. I'm talking about someone who is truly devoted to Islam.

                    Remember a few years ago (well, more than a few, really, but same principle) the whole big standoff in Waco, Texas? Those people were doing what they did because the christian God told them to do so. Does that make them devoted to their religion? No, it means they were devoted to whatever form of brainwashing they had gone through.

                    Do a little research on Islam and you'll see how ludicrous it is that anyone who commits acts of terrorism could be "devoted" to it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                      Originally posted by Charles Darwin View Post
                      they believed the lady had sold him cocaine?

                      the rule of thumb when you believe people might be armed is to go in at full force and then work down if they dont present a threat because its easier to go down than to go up

                      I think the drug war is just as retarded, but I dont fault cops for doing their job either
                      'Doing their job' does not include terrorizing people. Are you saying that having plainclothes officers jumping out of a black SUV as a shock and awe tactic is really justified in this situation just because there was a possibility that someone might have traded drugs?

                      These incidents (and raids on innocent people's homes where property is seized and never returned) are just part of the reason why the war on drugs is really just penalizing innocent people and justifies abusive police behavior for the people who think that drug use leads to crime instead of the reality that criminalizing drug possession and trade leads to crime.
                      |TG-6th|Snooggums

                      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                        Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                        No they're not. They're devoted to "the cause". The same way that IRA members are devoted to "the cause". The same way that innumerable numbers of people in history have been devoted to some "cause" or another. Go talk to a devout muslim. I'm not talking about a zealot or an extremist. I'm talking about someone who is truly devoted to Islam.

                        Remember a few years ago (well, more than a few, really, but same principle) the whole big standoff in Waco, Texas? Those people were doing what they did because the christian God told them to do so. Does that make them devoted to their religion? No, it means they were devoted to whatever form of brainwashing they had gone through.

                        Do a little research on Islam and you'll see how ludicrous it is that anyone who commits acts of terrorism could be "devoted" to it.
                        I know quite a bit about islam, I have family who are muslims, I get along with them very well..and find them to be very pleasant peaceful and patriotic people. That doesnt mean that "islam is peace" anymore than it mean islam is war, it means like almost all religions, but especially the abrahamic faiths..you can find justification for damn near everything in those books, if you want to do evil its justified, want to do good? justified, want to do a mix of both? you guessed it justified.

                        as far as your waco comment..well you see there we have the issue, because as far as Im concerned all religions are just brainwashing, is a person who has been brainwashed to do good any more commited than one who has been brainwashed to kill? no..theyre just brainwashed differantly



                        Fate whispers to the warrior "You will not survive the storm."
                        The warrior whispers back, "I AM the storm."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                          Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                          'Doing their job' does not include terrorizing people. Are you saying that having plainclothes officers jumping out of a black SUV as a shock and awe tactic is really justified in this situation just because there was a possibility that someone might have traded drugs?

                          These incidents (and raids on innocent people's homes where property is seized and never returned) are just part of the reason why the war on drugs is really just penalizing innocent people and justifies abusive police behavior for the people who think that drug use leads to crime instead of the reality that criminalizing drug possession and trade leads to crime.
                          I think youre assuming that they had planned to do thi from the get go..which i doubt, it seems far more like they were following the girl, this guy picked her up, they thought they had just saw a drug deal go down, and didnt have time to get regular officers on scene



                          Fate whispers to the warrior "You will not survive the storm."
                          The warrior whispers back, "I AM the storm."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                            Furthermore, having known quite a few pastors, preachers and other clergymen in my time, I can say with absolute certainty that one of the things that they do is try to help people rehabilitate their lives. This frequently involves working with criminals of all sorts, many of whom have drug problems. So who is to say that he wasnt just giving a member of his flock a ride home? Who is to say he wasnt there trying to counsel the woman?

                            Personally, I agree with snoogs here. If i was pulling into or out of somewhere in my car and an unmarked black van pulls up and a bunch of guys in plain clothes jump out with automatic weapons, I'm probably not going to notice the badges either (if theyre even showing), i'm probably going to see the guns, take my chances by ducking my head and dumping on the gas.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Police shoot and kill Georgia pastor.

                              Might we consider the possibility that he freaked the hell out when cops identified themselves because he actually HAD traded some drugs with this unidentified woman? He roared his car backwards, and he did indeed almost hit one of the police officers.

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