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9/12 March on Washington

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  • 9/12 March on Washington

    Last saturday, depending on who you ask, somewhere between 20,000 and 2 Million people marched on Washington DC as part of the "9/12 project" to protest various things, with Obamacare being high on the list.

    Of course, depending on who you ask, you may not hear about it at all. So I thought I'd throw up a link while I'm here. Its a UK news link, because I haven't found a good US based one yet.

    I'm not quite sure what I think of the protests myself -- they don't seem to have a clearly defined goal to agree or disagree with, probably due to the lack of a single organized leader to give the group some direction. Its just a lot of people with a lot of frustration hoping to be heard.

  • #2
    Re: 9/12 March on Washington

    Looks like a bunch of ignorant people are upset bout stuff they don't understand. This was the most entertaining quote from the article:

    Another marcher shouted: 'You want socialism? Go to Russia!'
    I'll bet that marcher got to Washington on some silly socialist public roads. Maybe they even took the socialist Amtrack or flew on one of the government subsidized airlines.

    And how can the spread be between 20,000 and 2 million? One or the other is simply wrong, and an estimate could be made with a photo but it seems the march sponsors doctored their photo of the event. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_286082.html
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 9/12 March on Washington

      Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
      Last saturday, depending on who you ask, somewhere between 20,000 and 2 Million people marched on Washington DC as part of the "9/12 project" to protest various things, with Obamacare being high on the list.

      Of course, depending on who you ask, you may not hear about it at all. So I thought I'd throw up a link while I'm here. Its a UK news link, because I haven't found a good US based one yet.

      I'm not quite sure what I think of the protests myself -- they don't seem to have a clearly defined goal to agree or disagree with, probably due to the lack of a single organized leader to give the group some direction. Its just a lot of people with a lot of frustration hoping to be heard.
      A lot of malcontents that are destroying this country and should just move to someplace else!

      Just joking. But I did see this on several morning news shows this morning.

      It is interesting.

      One the one hand the poles show that his approval rating and support for health care reform is not horrible. Some might even call the numbers good.

      And even generally there aren't many people that can say with a straight face that health care system is perfect and doesn't need any changes. Polls have shown for a long time that people are concerned about health care.

      I have never seen the level of hatred (what you call frustration) about the details. It is almost always the pro/con type issues. And, like snooggums said, most of them don't even understand what is going on. Things like individuals worried about the government messing with their medicare kinda shows this.

      I say there is something else going on. The idiotic flap about the Obama addressing the school children about staying in school. Some of the crazy things I hear on local talk radio...

      I have a theory. This isn't just about Obama and health care reform. This is really about a bunch of conservatives, especially the religious kind, that have had to keep their mouths shut for the past 8 years of Bush. They hated what happened during that time but didn't want to get visibly angry when conservatives and Bush where in office.

      Now that there is a new Democratic president they can get as angry as they want, and they are.

      I don't think anybody in the conservative/republican arena is trying to do anything to control it. Some are even fanning the flames. A small percentage are really racists and are using the oportunity to voice their anger indirectly.

      None of this is too unusual but it is usually the crazy leftist types talking about animal cruelty and lack of love that amass in large, unorganized number. Now it is the crazy utlra-conservatives.

      Oh well. Either the country will survive or it will fall apart. I doubt a couple million kooks on either side really mean that much.
      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 9/12 March on Washington

        Originally posted by snooggums View Post
        And how can the spread be between 20,000 and 2 million? One or the other is simply wrong, and an estimate could be made with a photo but it seems the march sponsors doctored their photo of the event.
        Granted, that's a damn huge spread. Its fairly common to see spreads of 3 or 4 to 1 between the under-estimators and the over-estimators, and I think I've seen 10 to 1 at least once, but this is the first 100 to 1 spread I've heard of.

        I think the 2 million claims have been withdrawn by now, with the highest remaining claims at the 1 million range. And those are probably still exaggerated for effect. 100 K seems much more likely.

        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande
        I have a theory. This isn't just about Obama and health care reform. This is really about a bunch of conservatives, especially the religious kind, that have had to keep their mouths shut for the past 8 years of Bush. They hated what happened during that time but didn't want to get visibly angry when conservatives and Bush where in office.

        Now that there is a new Democratic president they can get as angry as they want, and they are.
        That's an interesting theory you have. I'll have to think about that for a bit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 9/12 March on Washington

          Just to be clear I don't doubt that there are real ideological differences and a general dislike of Democrats.

          What I am really interested in is the fact that you see conservative people massing and acting all goofy. Usually conservatives are, well, conservative. They get angry but they don't go all Hugo Chavez radical on your ass. Every group has their crazy uncles but conservatives generally keep them somewhat subdued.

          The other explanation I have come up with is more depressing. The relatively calm and rational part of government trying to keep things in check, the Republicans, have been replaced with all the fringe conservative groups. I really hope that isn't the case.
          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 9/12 March on Washington

            I personally think that the protesters are a bunch of closet racists who fear having a black president and simply want to oppose anything he does. They implement this by giving reasons like fear of socialism and overbearing government but they didn't protest the Patriot Act, wiretapping or any other actual government intervention issues. These are most likely the same people who tried (and some succeeded) in keeping their local schools from broadcasting a message from president Obama to stay in school and that education is important. no protests when Reagan, Bush and Clinton did similar outreach to students.

            They didn't do this crap to the last Democratic president (Clinton), the only thing I can see different that would illicit this kind of angry ignorant response from this many people is the race issue. They don't even try to push for compromise, they simply act like spoiled children stomping their feet no to anything shout at actual discussions etc. It's a good reminder of how even in this enlightened age there are plenty of people who still fear what they don't know.
            |TG-6th|Snooggums

            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 9/12 March on Washington

              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
              I personally think that the protesters are a bunch of closet racists who fear having a black president and simply want to oppose anything he does. They implement this by giving reasons like fear of socialism and overbearing government but they didn't protest the Patriot Act, wiretapping or any other actual government intervention issues. These are most likely the same people who tried (and some succeeded) in keeping their local schools from broadcasting a message from president Obama to stay in school and that education is important. no protests when Reagan, Bush and Clinton did similar outreach to students.

              They didn't do this crap to the last Democratic president (Clinton), the only thing I can see different that would illicit this kind of angry ignorant response from this many people is the race issue. They don't even try to push for compromise, they simply act like spoiled children stomping their feet no to anything shout at actual discussions etc. It's a good reminder of how even in this enlightened age there are plenty of people who still fear what they don't know.
              No, I think you are wrong. There is definatly a few of the radicals that are racist stirring the pot using health care and the economy to their benefit.

              But almost a million all of them? Racist to the point that they would go to a rally and scream and carry on as they did? All of them keeping this very high level of racism in check and only screaming about socialism?

              I just don't see it.
              Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
              - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
              - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
              - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
              - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
              - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
              - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                I personally think that the protesters are a bunch of closet racists who fear having a black president and simply want to oppose anything he does. They implement this by giving reasons like fear of socialism and overbearing government but they didn't protest the Patriot Act, wiretapping or any other actual government intervention issues. These are most likely the same people who tried (and some succeeded) in keeping their local schools from broadcasting a message from president Obama to stay in school and that education is important. no protests when Reagan, Bush and Clinton did similar outreach to students.
                I personally think your post is a bunch of crap.

                I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                J.F.C. Fuller

                Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                  Originally posted by HiTestFest View Post
                  I personally think your post is a bunch of crap.
                  Why do you think that?

                  I don't agree with the conclusion but it is true from my experience. Those demonstrating and saying they fear socialism and government take over didn't, generally, go to the streets and yell about that.

                  I disagree with snooggums in that I think they did hate it. They also hated the fact we invaded Iraq and didn't catch Bin Laden and spent billions in foreign countries and didn't keep wall street in check and let Madoff get away with ruining peoples lives for years.
                  Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                  - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                  - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                  - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                  - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                  - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                  - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                    Well for one, the Dems did bitch about Bushs' speech to school children.
                    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/04/us...%20bush&st=cse

                    And some conservatives did shout out against the Patriot Act and tried to have it rewritten.
                    http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/....aspx?id=12723

                    I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                    Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                    J.F.C. Fuller

                    Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                      I think I would second the whole crap comment. By lumping every protester into the same opinionated description he is doing the exact same thing a racist or bigot does. Judges a person group of people not based on their individual merits but on the perceived groups.

                      And on what I think is the more interesting part of the whole protest. Why is the coverage so lacking? I heard from a friend that something happened on Saturday and could find nothing except a lackluster AP story that gave no real indication of numbers in the few minutes I spent looking.
                      |TG-12th| Sawviper

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                        No, I think you are wrong. There is definatly a few of the radicals that are racist stirring the pot using health care and the economy to their benefit.

                        But almost a million all of them? Racist to the point that they would go to a rally and scream and carry on as they did? All of them keeping this very high level of racism in check and only screaming about socialism?

                        I just don't see it.
                        There wasn't a million of them there, see my link above. I never said they were openly racist or possibly even aware of their prejudices, nor do I think that they automatically discriminate on a daily basis. I'm saying that they are having an irrational overreaction to something they fear because the person that is promoting the reform meets some underlying racism.

                        I know a lot of people that have racist views and don't discriminate. It becomes apparent when they make comments about people based on their race, even if they don't take any kind of action that could be considered racist. Things like 'lazy Mexicans', Chinese being good at math, etc.

                        Best example: Completely polite with black people, tip equally at restaurants, work with black people and daughter dates one. Still thinks that there's more black people in prison than white people, are more likely to talk to a white stranger after dark wearing the same clothes as a black person etc. It's human nature to fear things that are different, I'm even aware of my own prejudices based on lack of experience with certain races and cultures. I just don't see another example of a president that got the hatred that Obama gets, and the only difference I can see is race.

                        As I said it was an opinion, feel free to disagree or try to prove me wrong. What else made this issue have such a strong reaction?

                        Originally posted by HiTestFest View Post
                        Well for one, the Dems did bitch about Bushs' speech to school children.
                        http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/04/us...%20bush&st=cse

                        And some conservatives did shout out against the Patriot Act and tried to have it rewritten.
                        http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/....aspx?id=12723
                        The bush article you linked was about cost for the speech, not fear of promoting a socialist agenda or anything similar.

                        I admit I skimmed the article, but I did not see a part about members of the public having a demonstration in DC about the Patriot Act. I also said I was talking specifically about the very verbal protesters that are spouting ignorant crap and have irrational fears. I'm not saying anyone who opposes the plan or every protester is automatically racist, although I do admit I generalized :)
                        |TG-6th|Snooggums

                        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                          Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                          I just don't see another example of a president that got the hatred that Obama gets, and the only difference I can see is race.
                          Freakin hilarious. Were you asleep during the Bush Administration.???

                          I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                          Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                          J.F.C. Fuller

                          Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                            Don't you think labeling people as closet racists is just a bit too polarizing?
                            Skud


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 9/12 March on Washington

                              So a 'million' black people marching isn't racist, or illegals marching for rights isn't ignorant?

                              But 100K's if not 1Million people exercising their 1st Amendment rights are racist and ignorant???

                              Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

                              Also check out the aftermath of this march vs the inauguration:
                              http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...-liberals.html

                              Stupid, ignorant, racists that clean up after themselves.......

                              Comment

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