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When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

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  • When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/ed...line.html?_r=2

    A six year old kid joins the Cub Scouts and takes his new spork to school to eat lunch with and show off. So his school suspends him, under its zero-tolerance weapon rules.

    Of course, school attendance is mandated in the US, and you can choose either the "free" government supplied one or pay your own way and send your kid to private school. (Kinda sounds like the proposed health care plan, doesn't it?) Because it's a one-size-fits-all system that has to avoid even the appearance of discrimination, and must accept all applicants, it must use draconian rules with no room for discretion. (Do you suppose the public health care option will suffer this problem?)

    Perhaps these draconian rules in public schools are a Good Thing. They can require strict conformity, uniforms, absolutely no individuality whatsoever. To avoid bringing contraband to school, forbid bringing anything onto school grounds that wasn't supplied by the school. This would be a boon to well-connected school supplies firms, who could jockey with politicians to be the sole supplier of pencils and school lunches. (But don't make the pencils too sharp. You could put an eye out with one of those things!)
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

  • #2
    Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

    Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/ed...line.html?_r=2

    A six year old kid joins the Cub Scouts and takes his new spork to school to eat lunch with and show off. So his school suspends him, under its zero-tolerance weapon rules.
    From the article:
    Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school.
    While I think zero tolerance is stupid, it was the multi tool that had a knife (and also had a spork) that caused the problem. If parents want to whine about how he should be exempt because he is a model student they should protest the stupidity of the zero tolerance policy.

    The problem is parents want zero tolerance but want their kid exempt because they don't understand what zero tolerance means. The school is cool with zero tolerance because it removes any decision making.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

      The law was introduced after a third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal — but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.
      I think this example from the article is even more absurd, bringing a utility fork/knife/spoon is a little dimwitted but this is ridiculous...

      Confiscate the "weapons" if caught, send a letter home to parents on the first offense. If the student breaks the rule a second time then punish them, but expulsion for having grandma pack a knife in with the cake? Seriously...

      And what about utensils from the cafeteria? Maybe students should start eating everything with their hands, and no more scissors either...

      I didn't join a squad once and this guy named Nardini took me into the back room and beat me with a sock of oranges.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

        Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post

        Of course, school attendance is mandated in the US, and you can choose either the "free" government supplied one or pay your own way and send your kid to private school. (Kinda sounds like the proposed health care plan, doesn't it?) Because it's a one-size-fits-all system that has to avoid even the appearance of discrimination, and must accept all applicants, it must use draconian rules with no room for discretion. (Do you suppose the public health care option will suffer this problem?)

        Perhaps these draconian rules in public schools are a Good Thing. They can require strict conformity, uniforms, absolutely no individuality whatsoever. To avoid bringing contraband to school, forbid bringing anything onto school grounds that wasn't supplied by the school. This would be a boon to well-connected school supplies firms, who could jockey with politicians to be the sole supplier of pencils and school lunches. (But don't make the pencils too sharp. You could put an eye out with one of those things!)
        School attendance is not mandatory. Proving you have provided an education to your child usually is required. So there is always the home school option.

        This is another symptom of what is going on. Why are we drugging up children so often? Are there really more kids that can't pay attention than there where 50 years ago or have our expectations just increased that much?

        The whole "get tough on crime" is another part of this.
        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

          Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
          School attendance is not mandatory. Proving you have provided an education to your child usually is required. So there is always the home school option.

          This is another symptom of what is going on. Why are we drugging up children so often? Are there really more kids that can't pay attention than there where 50 years ago or have our expectations just increased that much?

          The whole "get tough on crime" is another part of this.
          The drugging of children is due to the goal of having every single student graduate high school. While consistent application of education (so students don't just get ignored that could complete the requirements) is the intended goal it ends up being an unrealistic goal and you end up with absolute stuff just like the zero tolerance laws/rules.

          Some students just won't complete an education in a school setting. I had a good friend who simply couldn't handle the structure of High School. He dropped out, got a GED and then proceeded to college to earn a difficult degree. This worked for him because college did not have the same attendance/boredom issues as High School. If a GED was considered graduating (it is an equivalent) like a home schooled student is when they complete their testing a lot more students could complete the required education without the additional school system crap.

          I do agree on the get tough on crime, and add to it 'think of the children' and you have a recipe for stupid situations like this article where there is no crime and the children are punished.
          |TG-6th|Snooggums

          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

            Ah, so America does not trust children. Or cub scouts.

            I bet it's from all the violent video games that PARENTS let their children play.

            Haha, society...
            Skud


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

              Ok, a kid once brought a LOADED and live shotgun shell that could of been easily dropped and set off, and he got 3 days suspension. I don't see why this kid got such a severe punishment for something that wouldn't cause any damage.

              My fists, the chair i sit on, and my pencil are all weapons. And don't pull that "that's not their main purpose" excuse on me either.
              |TG-6th|SirNerd

              My Resume includes Pirate, Mercenary, and a Devil Dog, what else do you want.

              Pain is Inevitable, Suffering is Optional.

              When you can't run anymore, you crawl and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

                Originally posted by Sir-Nerd View Post
                Ok, a kid once brought a LOADED and live shotgun shell that could of been easily dropped and set off, and he got 3 days suspension. I don't see why this kid got such a severe punishment for something that wouldn't cause any damage.

                My fists, the chair i sit on, and my pencil are all weapons. And don't pull that "that's not their main purpose" excuse on me either.
                It is actually kinda hard to set of most ammunition. Also, when it goes off outside a firearm it doesn't have the same damage potential.

                Just a FYI.
                Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

                  Yeah, you pretty much have to hit the primer with a sharp object. Dropping it is not going to set it off.

                  As you say, going to a public school isn't mandatory, but getting "approved" education is. It's just like the proposed health care bill, where insurance is mandated, and there's a tax-supported public option that will replace the private option for all but the rich.

                  BTW, I'm finding it scary that I'm agreeing with Snoogums so much lately. ;)
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                  Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

                    The boy's suspension has been lifted, including his impending 45-day stay at an "alternative school for troublemakers".

                    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091014/..._tolerance_boy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

                      Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                      It is actually kinda hard to set of most ammunition. Also, when it goes off outside a firearm it doesn't have the same damage potential.

                      Just a FYI.
                      While I basically already knew it's amazing what watching Mythbusters can teach you. They tried in the past to fire a round through primer outside of a gun (and failed) and also fired ammo by putting it in the oven. When they did the oven stuff even a .50 fired wasn't very powerful without the barrel giving it the muzzle velocity. Most rounds wouldn't even penetrate the glass on the oven's door.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: When weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have... sporks?

                        Originally posted by LT. Razgriz View Post
                        While I basically already knew it's amazing what watching Mythbusters can teach you. They tried in the past to fire a round through primer outside of a gun (and failed) and also fired ammo by putting it in the oven. When they did the oven stuff even a .50 fired wasn't very powerful without the barrel giving it the muzzle velocity. Most rounds wouldn't even penetrate the glass on the oven's door.
                        Figured that out as a kid.

                        It was fun playing with various rounds. Shotgun shells where the most fun. It is easy to empty the shot and replace it with, say, corn or other grains.
                        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                        Comment

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