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  • Capitalism: A Love Story

    On a short trip I took out of town this weekend I was able to catch a viewing of Capitalism: A Love Story. I was pleasantly suprised at how well it was done and how informative it could be, especially for average Americans that don't really follow our screwed up political and economic system. Sure it has the normal Michael Moore goofiness at times, but don't let that get in the way of the overall message. We are in Big Trouble as a country. And Michael Moore nailed it in this film. He touched base on so many issues involving our friends, or enemies of mankind more like it, inside Wall Street and corporations, then of course the corrupt politicians that profit from their schemes. And other egregious forms of capitalism such as corporate life insurance policies on their employees, the "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania, and many more. I highly recommend this film, don't let the old two party politics or anger about his other films, such as Fahrenheit 9/11, stand in your way of this sometimes funny, sad, and very informative documentary.[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeROnVUADj0[/media]Peter Travers Rolling Stone Magazine review below.
    The Pirates of the Caribbean have nothing on the buccaneers of Wall Street, and the banks and insurance companies that merrily loot America with the help of our elected officials. You know this. I know this. So how come Michael Moore has to make a movie about it? Because we're doing ****-all to change things. The explosive Capitalism: A Love Story is Moore's call to arms against the robber barons who shamelessly empty our pockets while we do nothing about it. Why? Because we want to get in the pants of the upper one percent and rub up against expensive stuff just like they do. Some love story!

    Moore sees our abusive relationship with capitalism as a growing plague. His movie, a genuine and welcome rabble-rouser, lays out the history of how democracy got corrupted. Moore's enemies label him as a fat, fatuous irritant who leans toward the overblown, inflammatory and clownishly silly. What's with those crazy stunts like making a citizen's arrest on the board of AIG or hanging yellow crime-scene tape around the banks? To get our attention, that's what. Moore is a populist, not an academic. He knows how to wield a camera like a blunt instrument. He also knows how to put a human face on statistics as we watch banks foreclose on the homes of families who never read the fine print. Moore's fireball of a movie could change your life. It had me laughing with tears in my eyes. Link
    |TG-X| mp40x



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  • #2
    Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

    Originally posted by mp40x View Post
    I highly recommend this film, don't let the old two party politics or anger about his other films, such as Fahrenheit 9/11, stand in your way of this sometimes funny, sad, and very informative documentary.
    I can't believe anything Moore says anymore due to the massive amount of intentional misleading and outright lies in earlier movies such as Bowling for Columbine and Farenheit 9/11. It isn't controversy that he deliberately misled his viewers by staging several scenes. How long do I have to wait for scenes from this movie to be proven false or staged to say I told you so?
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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    • #3
      Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

      He makes a movie bashing capitalism...and profits from it's release on a free-market economy. Mr Moore must be beside himself with grief.
      The American Resistance Movement: Defending the nation from tyranny since 1776.

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      • #4
        Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

        Originally posted by SnowmanActual View Post
        He makes a movie bashing capitalism...and profits from it's release on a free-market economy. Mr Moore must be beside himself with grief.
        Like many issues Moore isn't really against Capitalism. In "Bowling for Columbine" he wasn't against gun ownership.

        He is making a statement against the idiotic proportion that some things have come to play in our lives.

        Capitalism is neither good nor bad. The problem is that it has become a religion to many individuals and to do or say anything against it is blasphemy. Because it has become a religion a small group of people have been able to manipulate the masses and benefit from it way, way, WAY beyond any real service they actually provide. In fact many of those that made huge amounts of money (and continue to do so) probably did not provide an actual service to anybody but them selves and they the other "high priests of wall street".
        Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 10-26-2009, 03:09 PM.
        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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        • #5
          Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

          While I don't always agree with his methods, I generally agree with his aims.

          There was a better movie about capitalism - specifically corporations and American capitalism - that came out in 2003. Michael Moore was interviewed in parts of it. The Corporation. Also a documentary film with a clear method, but compelling none the less. You can watch it in 23 chapters on YouTube:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pin8fbdGV9Y&feature=fvw

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          • #6
            Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

            I wish he would have stopped after Roger and Me :/

            In fact, you should all watch it, its a fascinating portrayal of a town ravaged by economic downturn.

            Really, they should just re-release that film, it seems like a far more damning account of the negative effects of capitalism than this appears to be.

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            • #7
              Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

              Like Snoogums said, it's tough to hear about a Moore film being released and wondering how factual it may or may not be. I think I'll play the waiting game and see how the flick stands up to scrutiny.

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              • #8
                Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                Watching a Moore film for hard facts is like watching "The Daily Show" for news. It just isn't the point.
                Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                  Originally posted by Gill View Post
                  Like Snoogums said, it's tough to hear about a Moore film being released and wondering how factual it may or may not be. I think I'll play the waiting game and see how the flick stands up to scrutiny.
                  I don't understand what the big deal about Moore's films being factual is all about, sure he takes liberties, but who doesn't? All of a sudden we are so concerned about forms of media being based on fact? People routinely tune into Fox news featuring Bill O'Reilly, and Sean hannity. Also theres MSNBC who has Chris Mathews, and Keith Oberman. Each network having their own opinion and loosely based facts wich they expound on with great zeal. So why the controversy over a film that Moore makes? I am willing to watch almost anything and form my own opinion, even blatantly bias documentaries and news sources. Now I will say that I have only seen two of his films, Fahrenheit 9/11 and Capitalism: A Love Story. Can't speak towards the other films because I haven't seen them. Maybe people should actually watch something before forming an opinion. Fahrenheit 9/11 is probably the most likely reason why so many boycott his films. Its is highly inflammatory and cuts deep into the emotions that people have about 9/11. I myself did not watch it till some years later for that very reason.

                  The one thing I took away from this film is, Wall Street and Washington(especially the Department of Treasury) are too closely connected. You basically have the wolves watching the henhouse. All the appointees and regulators inside the Treasury are former Wall Street corporate lackeys, or Federal Reserve insiders, as we now have with the absolute farce Timothy Geithner. Nobody has a problem with this?
                  Michael Moore films: Fact or fiction?

                  No documentary filmmaker in history has been more successful than Michael Moore, and no other has been quite as divisive. He has won many of cinema's highest honors, and he's been lambasted and parodied in movies and on TV.

                  Twenty years after his first film, "Roger & Me," he continues to be a target for criticism from the right and sometimes even the left. Though in true Michael Moore-style, nearly every time criticism has been directed at the facts he presents in his movies, he has a response to back up his position. With his latest film, "Capitalism: A Love Story," arriving in theaters nationwide, here are five of the top controversies from Moore's movies, along with how he responded to each charge leveled against him.

                  Roger & Me (1989)
                  Moore's first and most personal film looked at how the closing of General Motors factories drastically affected the economy in his hometown of Flint, Michigan. Moore's camera followed him as he attempted to question GM CEO Roger Smith about why the plants were closed.

                  CONTROVERSY:
                  In their film "Manufacturing Dissent," filmmakers Rick Caine and Debbie Melnyk show that Moore met with Smith at a 1987 shareholder's meeting. They state that Moore withheld this interview from his movie to make Smith look more unreachable than he actually was.

                  RESPONSE:
                  Moore acknowledged that he had a "good five minutes of back-and forth" with Smith about a GM tax abatement, but that it was before he began working on "Roger & Me." Moore said, "If I'd gotten an interview with him, why wouldn't I put it in the film?" and added that if he had suppressed an interview with Smith, GM would have surely publicized that in an effort to discredit him.


                  Bowling for Columbine (2002)
                  Moore won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature for his examination of gun violence in America. With a focus on the Columbine massacre, Moore -- who has a lifetime membership to the NRA -- questioned why the number of incidences of gun violence is so much higher in the US than in any other country.

                  CONTROVERSY:
                  Early in the movie, Moore goes to a bank in Michigan that advertises they give away a free gun for opening a CD. In "Michael Moore Hates America," another documentary about his films, director Michael Wilson claims that Moore manipulated the bank workers into giving him the gun directly, when the weapons weren't normally kept on-site or given out on the day.

                  RESPONSE:
                  Moore insists that what was shown in the movie was exactly what happened with no coercion. He states that he did call ahead to ask permission to bring in cameras, but cites that news reports before him had documented the same process. The bank does have a Federal Firearms license to conduct background checks and does keep a vault holding at least 500 firearms.


                  Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004)
                  Released during the summer of George W. Bush's re-election campaign, Moore's film blasted his administration over the 2000 election in Florida, the response to the 9/11 attacks, and the justification for the war in Iraq. It earned $120 million domestically, making it the highest-grossing documentary of all time.

                  CONTROVERSY:
                  The film provoked a flurry of articles and opinion pieces both lambasting and supporting Moore and his statements in the film. Moore was also sued by Peter Damon, an injured Iraq War veteran who gave an interview to NBC News while at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center that Moore included in his movie.

                  RESPONSE:
                  Damon's $85 million defamation suit did go before a federal judge, but Moore's attorney argued that Damon was quoted verbatim and his statements were not taken out of context. The suit was dismissed, and an appeals court held up the ruling in Moore's favor. Moore said in response, "I did not defame this soldier and would not... My prayers are with him and with all soldiers who have suffered from this war."


                  Sicko (2007)
                  Two years before the current debate on health care in America, Moore was already examining the country's for-profit insurance industry and comparing it to other nations' government-run programs. Towards the end of the film, Moore takes three 9/11 workers who were unable to afford health insurance on a boat to Guantanamo Bay to see if he can get them care there. When he's turned away, they land in Cuba and actually do get to see doctors in a Havana hospital.

                  CONTROVERSY:
                  Much was made of the Cuban trip and the claims Moore made about the country's health care system. Critics accused him of falsely claiming Cuba had a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality rate than the U.S. The Treasury Department even investigated him to see if he had violated the travel embargo with Cuba.

                  RESPONSE:
                  Moore posted a United Nations report on his website that found the average life expectancy in the U.S. to be 77.5 years, while in Cuba it is 77.6 years. Another U.N. survey reported the infant mortality rate in Cuba to be 6.2 per thousand, while rate in the U.S. is 6.8 per thousand. Moore also claimed the Cuba trip was legal because "journalistic endeavors" are permitted under the embargo.


                  Capitalism: A Love Story (2009)
                  Moore intended to make a follow-up to "Fahrenheit 9/11," but with the onset of the global financial crisis, he instead turned his cameras towards Wall Street. Echoing "Roger & Me," Moore returns to Flint, MI to see the remnants of the auto factories there, and attempts to make a "citizen's arrest" of the head honchos of the financial institutions that received government bailouts.

                  CONTROVERSY:
                  Even before the movie debuted, the Associated Press ran a fact check article about the movie. It states that three months after Moore went to the headquarters of Goldman Sachs the firm did return $68 billion in bailout money they received. Also, Moore rails against Democratic Senator Chris Dodd for receiving "V.I.P." loans from Countrywide Financial Corp., even though a Senate Ethics panel cleared Dodd of any wrong-doing.

                  RESPONSE:
                  Moore contends that "not even 10 percent of the $700 billion has been returned," though the AP reports only $425 billion was actually distributed. Plus, he says he didn't include the Ethics panel's conclusion on the Dodd matter because he hopes that the Justice Department will continue to investigate "not just to Senator Dodd, but to all those in both the Clinton and Bush administrations that benefited from this."
                  |TG-X| mp40x



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                  • #10
                    Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                    Documentaries are supposed to be based on facts even if they are skewed by the filter of the lens and the director.

                    Moore has completely staged scenes to mislead viewers, such as the gun at a bank scene from BFC. You don't get the gun at the bank when you open the account. What he does is the equivalent of Borat with less gay overtones.

                    Fox News isn't comparable because all of the people you mention are 'opinion and commentary' hosts. That isn't news, that is Real World equivalent of a news show. Moore should be more like the evening news with Dan Rather (ie accountable) if he is going to be promoting his movies as documentaries, otherwise he can fall into the category of fictional re-tellings based on real world events like Titanic as that was as factually accurate as Bowling for Columbine was.
                    |TG-6th|Snooggums

                    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                      Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                      Documentaries are supposed to be based on facts even if they are skewed by the filter of the lens and the director.

                      Moore has completely staged scenes to mislead viewers, such as the gun at a bank scene from BFC. You don't get the gun at the bank when you open the account. What he does is the equivalent of Borat with less gay overtones.

                      Fox News isn't comparable because all of the people you mention are 'opinion and commentary' hosts. That isn't news, that is Real World equivalent of a news show. Moore should be more like the evening news with Dan Rather (ie accountable) if he is going to be promoting his movies as documentaries, otherwise he can fall into the category of fictional re-tellings based on real world events like Titanic as that was as factually accurate as Bowling for Columbine was.
                      But should you really call Moore's stuff "Documentaries"? I suppose some would want them to be such things but really they are propaganda.

                      If the advertisements say "A film by Michael Moore" not "A documentary by Michael Moore".
                      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                        But should you really call Moore's stuff "Documentaries"? I suppose some would want them to be such things but really they are propaganda.

                        If the advertisements say "A film by Michael Moore" not "A documentary by Michael Moore".
                        He wins 'documentary' awards, and his films are referred to as documentaries. Even propaganda can be a documentary. he defends his films by claiming their authenticity so even if we didn't refer to them as documentaries he is still claiming he makes accurate representations of reality (per his website).
                        |TG-6th|Snooggums

                        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                          Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                          Documentaries are supposed to be based on facts even if they are skewed by the filter of the lens and the director.

                          Moore has completely staged scenes to mislead viewers, such as the gun at a bank scene from BFC. You don't get the gun at the bank when you open the account. What he does is the equivalent of Borat with less gay overtones.

                          Fox News isn't comparable because all of the people you mention are 'opinion and commentary' hosts. That isn't news, that is Real World equivalent of a news show. Moore should be more like the evening news with Dan Rather (ie accountable) if he is going to be promoting his movies as documentaries, otherwise he can fall into the category of fictional re-tellings based on real world events like Titanic as that was as factually accurate as Bowling for Columbine was.
                          I find your argument completely ridiculous, and hard to believe that you would grandstand against free speech. To what end is your opinion? We should not watch it because its called a documentary? That is merely a classification. So if it was classified as some other type of film that would be ok? I guess Ken Burns film The National Parks: Americas Best Idea is just propaganda because it supports the idea of putting aside land for public use. Therefore its skewed and can't be considered worthy of viewing, because it only supports one side of the argument? You keep sighting scenes from his other films. Thats one scene from one film. A film that I'm not trying to argue for or against. I'm talking about this film. Capitalism: A Love Story. Do you have an opinion about this film? And Dan Rather is not a shining example of objectivity. Although he has redeemed himself recently with outstanding reporting for HDNet.
                          |TG-X| mp40x



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                          • #14
                            Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                            Originally posted by mp40x View Post
                            I find your argument completely ridiculous, and hard to believe that you would grandstand against free speech. To what end is your opinion? We should not watch it because its called a documentary? That is merely a classification. So if it was classified as some other type of film that would be ok? I guess Ken Burns film The National Parks: Americas Best Idea is just propaganda because it supports the idea of putting aside land for public use. Therefore its skewed and can't be considered worthy of viewing, because it only supports one side of the argument? You keep sighting scenes from his other films. Thats one scene from one film. A film that I'm not trying to argue for or against. I'm talking about this film. Capitalism: A Love Story. Do you have an opinion about this film? And Dan Rather is not a shining example of objectivity. Although he has redeemed himself recently with outstanding reporting for HDNet.
                            1) I'm not grandstanding against free speech, post the quote that you think implies that.

                            2) I have not said anything about whether anyone should watch his movies, I have simply commented on the content of his movies and how it doesn't reflect the label of 'documentary' that is applied.

                            3) I haven't watched the film because I won't be giving a penny to Moore based on past movies and seeing a preview where he stands outside the AIG and demands they be arrested and give money back or some other ridiculous pompous scene. I'm sure there will be plenty of information on how he misconstrued reality and I don't see a need to watch this one particular film to know his approach when I have viewed the rest already.

                            Dan Rather is with a major network and is supposed to be reporting factual news. When he makes errors or reports incorrect information he is held to a standard and would be cast out of the pool of respected journalists if he was found to be reporting non-truthful information intentionally. That's how real journalism is supposed to work. Sure there are issues where mistake are made but he doesn't make a daily show out of making bald face lies (Glenn Beck I'm looking at you). I'm just making a distinction between fact based and opinion based journalism.

                            Propaganda is not an automatically negative term. I also didn't say anything about not viewing a movie because it might be propaganda, in fact I didn't say anything about whether people should watch his movies. The gun scene is the clearest example of something he staged in another movie, there's plenty more but I just figured it was an easily memorable one and also one that Moore has tried to defend.

                            Your post puts words in my mouth and then claims outrage, there's no logical defense because I didn't do what you claimed I did. Instead of responding to what you think I posted try responding to what was actually posted.
                            |TG-6th|Snooggums

                            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Capitalism: A Love Story

                              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                              1) I'm not grandstanding against free speech, post the quote that you think implies that.
                              It was your overall tone that I was commenting on. And Moore has a right to make any style film he wants. And I'm no fan of his. Particularly didn't care for Farenheit 9/11 to be quite honest.

                              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                              2) I have not said anything about whether anyone should watch his movies, I have simply commented on the content of his movies and how it doesn't reflect the label of 'documentary' that is applied.
                              Thats just something we will have to put to bed. Saying its not a true documentary might hold merit, but its a horrible way to argue against the film, and would leave most documentaries as not worthy under your characterization. As most have an underlying tone to support their side of the debate.
                              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                              3) I haven't watched the film because I won't be giving a penny to Moore based on past movies and seeing a preview where he stands outside the AIG and demands they be arrested and give money back or some other ridiculous pompous scene. I'm sure there will be plenty of information on how he misconstrued reality and I don't see a need to watch this one particular film to know his approach when I have viewed the rest already.
                              The 'reality' is we need more films like this one. I support any filmmaker that challenges the goverment and other entities in society that continue to fleece and scheme the American public. Whether I agree with their subject matter or not. And not giving a penny to things you don't agree with is a great idea. We need more of that in America. But to assume that this film is not worth viewing is to judge before you have seen it.
                              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                              Dan Rather is with a major network and is supposed to be reporting factual news. When he makes errors or reports incorrect information he is held to a standard and would be cast out of the pool of respected journalists if he was found to be reporting non-truthful information intentionally. That's how real journalism is supposed to work. Sure there are issues where mistake are made but he doesn't make a daily show out of making bald face lies (Glenn Beck I'm looking at you). I'm just making a distinction between fact based and opinion based journalism.
                              I'm not sure if their even is that much fact based journalism left thats accessible to the general public anymore. Newspapers, cable news, internet based media all have their bias. So your point is well taken. I was just pointing out that Rather was not the best example. Thats all.
                              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                              Your post puts words in my mouth and then claims outrage, there's no logical defense because I didn't do what you claimed I did. Instead of responding to what you think I posted try responding to what was actually posted.
                              You can spare me the self-righteous grandeur as if you haven't taken someones post before and expounded on it with much embellishment.

                              We agree on a great number of issues, this particular issue we unfortunately do not. I still say the film was done extremely well and has a good overall message and was very entertaining. Regardless of his past films inadequacies.
                              |TG-X| mp40x



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