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  • Islam-A religon of peace

    Maybe its time for all of us to consider the source of so much misunderstanding and read the text for ourselves. I know it was an eye opener for me the last time I read through the text. Its a social contract more than a religion and the peace it affords it affords to Muslims. It teaches tolerance for Jews and Christians and then conversion by the sword, hard for me to accept its a religion of peace, but don't take my word for it _Read it for yourselves.
    Forewarned is Forearmed





  • #2
    Re: Islam-A religon of peace

    I don't think reading the bible would give a very good insight into to any christian religion: catholic, baptist, eastern orthodox, unitarian, etc. Never mind all of them. I doubt reading the Qur'an will give a very thorough understanding of islam.

    Even if you went through the whole text with explanation from a proper authority, there is still a lot more insight needed about the cultural phenomenon that is religion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Islam-A religon of peace

      You still need to start somewhere. Relying on what others say isn't the same thing as finding out for yourself.
      Forewarned is Forearmed




      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Islam-A religon of peace

        You rely on what others say more than you think. And it's generally perfectly fine to do so. When's the last time you sat down and tried rigorously finding out whether you're really justified in using arithmetic. Or when's the last time you did all of the archaeology and whatever else is necessary to determine first hand how extensive the holocaust was?

        Testimony of others - not the religious kind, but from teachers and experts and regular people - comprises a large part of the evidence for our justified beliefs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Islam-A religon of peace

          Originally posted by sordavie View Post
          Testimony of others - not the religious kind, but from teachers and experts and regular people - comprises a large part of the evidence for our justified beliefs.
          A Boarder Passage - by Leila Ahmed ISBN:0-14-029183-0

          An autobiography about a woman growing up in Egypt in the 40's and 50's dealing with: "...The end of British colonialism, the creation of Israel, the rise of Arab nationalism under Nasser, and the breakdown of Egypt's once multireligious society... She poignantly reflects upon issues of language, race, and nationality..."

          A book I had to read as part of a multicultural literature class in collage. One of the key points that she touched on was the difference (as she saw it) of woman's Islam: that of peace and understanding; and men's Islam: obedience and conformity.

          What really made this book sink in was that the professor who taught the class lived in Egypt during the same period of time as the book takes place. Actually he only lived a few blocks away from where the story takes place, and was able to offer numerous details and insight into what was going on both politically and culturally.

          A little bit of a dry read, but still rather insightful as the author was raised with rather a European set of ideals. The first part of the book covers, for lack of better words, the 'culture shock' as a teen growing up in a more fundamentalist government under Nasser, before finally escaping to Europe and eventually the United States.

          ~ Draken

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Islam-A religon of peace

            Originally posted by sordavie View Post
            Testimony of others - not the religious kind, but from teachers and experts and regular people - comprises a large part of the evidence for our justified beliefs.
            Thats a big part of the problem today. People base what they know off of the "experts" they see on TV, and though I may be causing this thread to merge with the "for fox sake" thread, most people see the talking heads on the news as experts. People dont want to listen to experts these days because they cant get it in a 15 second sound bite. They would have to do things like attend seminars, listen to lectures and read books, you know, things that qualify as educating yourself on a subject. But thats too hard, and if a major media outlet isnt saying it, its not worth the time.

            I took three semesters of religious studies as electives in college because I find religion fascinating. I'm not at all a religious person myself, but understanding religions helps me to understand people and their beliefs, which is a major bonus in medicine. I studied a huge number of religions, mainstream and not, including Islam.

            I read the Quran (translated, of course. my arabic is limited to about four phrases.) cover to cover and found it strikingly similar to christianity in many ways. It is a religion based on stories which relate morality play. It is a bit more "hardcore" than mainstream christianity, but its a different religion. I wonder how many people know that the traditional greeting between two people as given by the Quran (السلام عليكم or "As-Salāmu Alaykum" when heard) means "peace be upon you"?

            As part of my studies, I went with three muslim friends to a service at their mosque. I can honestly tell you that I have been in christian churches that were far less friendly and accepting of me. Everyone at the mosque wanted to teach me something (and no, they werent trying to convert me), whether it was why it is important to pray facing mecca or where the origins of some of the stories from the quran were. The topic of that day's service was why you should be accepting of everyone. It didnt relate things to going to heaven and being in Allah's good graces, but that accepting everyone would lead you to have a fuller and richer life. If any of you ever have the chance to expand your horizons by doing the same, I highly recommend that you do.

            Now, given a twisted devotion to any religion, one could justify nearly anything. The slaughter of thousands of middle eastern people was carried out by Christians in the name of God during the crusades. Entire cultures in history have been wiped from the earth because of religious differences. The bottom line is that there is a definitive line between following a certain faith and being an extremist or zealot. Its easy to label people broadly based on the actions of a few nutjobs. Its much more difficult to divine the difference and direct any negativity you have at the appropriate few involved.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Islam-A religon of peace

              Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
              I can honestly tell you that I have been in christian churches that were far less friendly and accepting of me.
              Thats the whole problem with the Christian Right isn't it. They don't actually practice the teachings of Christ. Many are proponents of the war on drugs, the death penalty, and foreign wars. Not exactly the Christlike platform if you will. They offer alot of judgement over the rest of the public in their version of Christianity. Not exactly living up to these scriptures.
              Mathew 7:
              1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
              2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

              John 8:
              7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
              There was a phrase that was marketed a few years back that said "What would Jesus do". I think the real phrase should be "Where would Jesus be". And I don't think that Christ would be hanging out in the "mega churches" of America hobnobbing with self righteous religious zealots with political agendas. Instead he would be out on the streets ministering to the very people that American churchgoers love to judge and lock up. The drug addicts, prostitutes, and other misfortunate people that live on the fringe of society.

              Another problem with Americas version of Christianity is the doctrine that is taught. Some call it the "prosperity message" or the "word of faith" doctrine. This is where you have to "sow a seed" financially to "reap a harvest". Basically treating God as an investment banker and "naming and claiming" anything that you desire. You have to ask yourself would this message work in Africa where the people have next to nothing? The answer is no. It only works in America where capitalism and politics have infiltrated the Christian faith to the point of absurdity.
              |TG-X| mp40x



              Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                There is typically a huge difference between "religion" and "faith". Typically, people of faith are people of peace, whereas people of religion are the zealots. Seems to be the "pattern". The Islamic "religion" right now seems to be in a place similar to where the christian "religion" was during the crusades. Just on a different scale.
                A bumper sticker I saw recently sotr of sums it up. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are too unlike your Christ"
                |TG-Irr|Avengingllama
                I used to eat paint chips. Now I just drink the paint because I couldn't find a salsa that went well with the chips and they were dry =)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                  A church/mosque/temple of any type is a business just like any other. (Notice, I'm not speaking about religion as a whole, but individual churches) They give you a product and ask for donations in return instead of selling the product at a flat rate. I'm not a religious person, but the concept behind religion is fine with me. (everyone needs something to believe in whether it's true or not isn't relevant)

                  I don't see any major differences between any of the "holy books" of all faiths. They all speak about hate and love, violence and peace, work and charity, etc. It's all how it is perceived by the reader or in some cases the person talking about it. Taking any of those holy books literally would give anyone a bad taste in their mouth about that particular religion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                    Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                    Thats a big part of the problem today. People base what they know off of the "experts" they see on TV, and though I may be causing this thread to merge with the "for fox sake" thread, most people see the talking heads on the news as experts. People dont want to listen to experts these days because they cant get it in a 15 second sound bite. They would have to do things like attend seminars, listen to lectures and read books, you know, things that qualify as educating yourself on a subject. But thats too hard, and if a major media outlet isnt saying it, its not worth the time.

                    I took three semesters of religious studies as electives in college because I find religion fascinating. I'm not at all a religious person myself, but understanding religions helps me to understand people and their beliefs, which is a major bonus in medicine. I studied a huge number of religions, mainstream and not, including Islam.

                    I read the Quran (translated, of course. my arabic is limited to about four phrases.) cover to cover and found it strikingly similar to christianity in many ways. It is a religion based on stories which relate morality play. It is a bit more "hardcore" than mainstream christianity, but its a different religion. I wonder how many people know that the traditional greeting between two people as given by the Quran (السلام عليكم or "As-Salāmu Alaykum" when heard) means "peace be upon you"?

                    As part of my studies, I went with three muslim friends to a service at their mosque. I can honestly tell you that I have been in christian churches that were far less friendly and accepting of me. Everyone at the mosque wanted to teach me something (and no, they werent trying to convert me), whether it was why it is important to pray facing mecca or where the origins of some of the stories from the quran were. The topic of that day's service was why you should be accepting of everyone. It didnt relate things to going to heaven and being in Allah's good graces, but that accepting everyone would lead you to have a fuller and richer life. If any of you ever have the chance to expand your horizons by doing the same, I highly recommend that you do.

                    Now, given a twisted devotion to any religion, one could justify nearly anything. The slaughter of thousands of middle eastern people was carried out by Christians in the name of God during the crusades. Entire cultures in history have been wiped from the earth because of religious differences. The bottom line is that there is a definitive line between following a certain faith and being an extremist or zealot. Its easy to label people broadly based on the actions of a few nutjobs. Its much more difficult to divine the difference and direct any negativity you have at the appropriate few involved.
                    I'm not saying you should believe everything anyone says. And I'm not saying that there aren't times when you should investigate first person. The nature of knowledge from testimony is not a problem - indeed it's a huge reason why there's any human civilization at all. Testimony of others is a major prima facie justification for most of the things we believe. I'm just pointing out the fact that most of our justified beliefs come from the testimony of others. It was a reply to a comment that you should never just listen to what someone says and that you should always investigate first person. We'd all still be in the stone age if we either couldn't communicate our knowledge to each other or we never ever believed what anyone said to us and we had to investigate everything first hand.

                    I really don't know why you're telling me this story if you think there's such a huge problem with knowledge by testimony. You're telling me that one can gain knowledge by first hand experience. lol You tell me this in order to expand my knowledge in some ways. You want me to believe what you say. You're trying to provide me prima facie evidence to believe something about the nature of your experiences. If people couldn't gain knowledge by believing other people's testimony, then telling people this stuff would be pointless. What's wrong with believing what other people say again? Please, refrain from the performative contradictions. :)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                      Originally posted by sordavie View Post
                      I'm not saying you should believe everything anyone says. And I'm not saying that there aren't times when you should investigate first person. The nature of knowledge from testimony is not a problem - indeed it's a huge reason why there's any human civilization at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that most of our justified beliefs come from the testimony of others. It was a reply to a comment that you should never just listen to what someone says and that you should always investigate first person. We'd all still be in the stone age if we either couldn't communicate our knowledge to each other or we never ever believed what anyone said to us and we had to investigate everything first hand.
                      100% agreed! :D

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                        It's not so much about peace, but tolerance. All religions preach tolerance. It's in the practice of tolerance - especially in the face of intolerance - that seems to be fading from mainstream society in this age of increasingly polarized information.

                        There's an author named Robert Wright who recently published a book called "The Evolution of God." It has to do with the relationship between the common moral fiber of humankind and their religious beliefs, and where in the evolutionary process that fiber is (and could or should be) collectively taking us. He focuses on tolerance as the critical component, and seeks out the conditions under which religions throughout human history have embraced or failed on this. Given the current climate, he spends a significant portion of the discussion on Islam, the Koran and it's pseudo-author, Mohammed.

                        But first let’s stress the sense in which it doesn’t matter. As we’ll see, even if one phase in the Koran’s shifting attitude toward Jews reflects post-Muhammad amendment, the pattern we’ve seen in this book so far will stand: tolerance and belligerence, even when conveyed by the lofty language of scripture, are ultimately obedient to the facts on the ground.…
                        My interpretation of this line of thinking is that subscribers of religion all too often fail to see their integral role in shaping their religion. The 'follower' mentality does very little to perpetuate real tolerance - if your interpretation of following a religion involves intolerance, are you truly following that religion or in fact degenerating it?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                          Originally posted by avenging llama View Post
                          A bumper sticker I saw recently sotr of sums it up. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are too unlike your Christ"
                          Ghandi said this.
                          In Order to Dance


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                            Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                            It's not so much about peace, but tolerance. All religions preach tolerance. It's in the practice of tolerance - especially in the face of intolerance - that seems to be fading from mainstream society in this age of increasingly polarized information.
                            Nope, most followers of religion are intolerant because their religious texts or leaders tell them to be intolerant and this is not a new development. Many religions have had a violent conversion of non-believers or death to non-believers teaching/writing/campaign in their history and that is part of the religion. The Islamic factions that are the basis of the Sunni/Shiite conflict were based on their religions. The Inquisition and witch hunts were based on intolerance.

                            The current primary opposition to abortion is a campaign backed by Christian religions and is based on intolerance (as in no abortion is acceptable) and aims to deny this practice by others completely and not just as a decision to not have one themselves. Opposition to racial mixing was taught in churches and supported by religion itself and not just the practitioners on their own.

                            Sure some religions may preach tolerance but Islam and Christianity don't. Even in the US there have been many incidents of religious intolerance instigated by the religious establishment.
                            |TG-6th|Snooggums

                            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Islam-A religon of peace

                              Originally posted by AMosely View Post
                              My interpretation of this line of thinking is that subscribers of religion all too often fail to see their integral role in shaping their religion. The 'follower' mentality does very little to perpetuate real tolerance - if your interpretation of following a religion involves intolerance, are you truly following that religion or in fact degenerating it?
                              I think it depends on the religion. Most of the major ones that I have looked into have been so rife with contradictions that you can justify any war, or infinite tolerance while staying true to the text. Part of my trouble with the concept of religion is that the followers invariably think they are doing gods work, and as a general rule if they think what they have been doing is "right" they are loathe to change, be it for greater acceptance or anything else.

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