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  • Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

    A fellow TG'er linked me a speech by RFK Jr. ranting about the anti-virus conspiracy, so I asked about it on an autism forum I belong to. I was told to check out a book called "Fear of the Invisible":

    http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/
    Order from Amazon.com

    A positive review of the book:

    http://liamscheff.com/daily/2008/09/...e-book-review/

    A cursory google didn't immediately find any real criticism of the book.

    The general theme seems to be that vaccines are badly contaminated (not just mercury, but various cellular debris) even after the FDA reduces the allowed contamination levels, virus research is full of bad practices, and the reports are getting buried.

    My first instinct is to assume that this is a tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracist. But how do you tell the difference between a whack job and a legitimate whistle blower in such a niche technical field?
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

  • #2
    Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

    Because theres no real basis for it. I've seen spectrometric readings and examined various vaccines under high resolution microscopes. I had to, a big chunk of my thesis was based around the tin-foil hatter's "vaccines cause autism" issue. Know what I found? Bio-integrable filler, saline, chemical compounds for bonding and inert viral composites. Thats it. Now sure, I'm certain that over the course of development of various vaccines there has been incidence of contamination (it took Alexander Fleming 15 years of experimenting in open petri dishes almost a hundred years ago to discover our first really effective antibiotic...think he never contaminated anything?). But the fact that there would be some mass conspiracy to cover up things of this nature is preposterous. I work with people who are paranoid enough to check vaccines for these kinds of things, and you can be sure that theyre not alone in the practice. Theres simply too much oversight.

    Plus, if the pharmaceutical companies are really the evil empires that they're made out to be in the book, wouldnt they have found a way to silence the author (or publicly discredit him enough to make him seem like a whack job)? Thats the problem with whack jobs. They dont understand that the backers of a true conspiracy wouldnt ever let real details or evidence leak out, much less be published in a book.

    As a side note, did you notice that the author is a Sociologist? Not someone with pharmaceutical or medical knowledge, a sociologist. So aside from the ability to interview other whack jobs, wheres her qualification?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

      Dude everyone knows that when it comes to medical stuff, reading online about it(especially on niche forums) is the best way to go. Medical Science in general doesn't mean squat when you have a PhD in Quantum Herbological Medicine Doctoring from the online University of Guatemala.

      The best way to do everything is the "Natural" way. Drink 5 bottles of prescription strength "Golden Seal" antibiotic when you get a cold. For proper effects, add some Homeopathic "Remedies" in the mix. ***Sarcasm*** Please don't actually do that....

      This Anti-Vaccine crap is beyond annoying, especially for those who rely on "Herd" immunity, along with all the different forms of healthcare quackery. Uggh.
      |TG-X|Turkish

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

        Ah thanks Ferris. I keep hearing things like this and it is helpful to hear your information and first hand experience. yet another conspiracy thing to disregard.

        Autism btw seems very attractive somehow to conspiracy-ish fantasies.

        One of those: some mother assured me once as if her life depended on it that "gluten" found in many kinds of wheat cause autism and are really bad for all kinds of stuff. Then she used the unique example of her own daughter and how the gluten-free diet really helps her so much...

        Well she seemed incapable of reasoning adequately to have a serious opinion on it. Also her statistical insight seemed lacking.

        Wikipedia says:
        The scientific literature on the link between gluten and autism is mixed and there is no substantial research on in utero causality. There have been too few adequately designed, large-scale controlled studies and clinical trials to state whether the diet is effective.[28] A small, single -blind study has documented fewer autistic behaviors in children fed a gluten-free, casein-free diet, but noted no change in cognitive skills, linguistic ability, or motor ability.[29] This study has been criticized for its small sample size, singleblind design which may have skewed results on the basis of a "parent placebo effect".[30] A 2006 double-blind short-term study found no significant differences in behavior between children on a gluten-free, casein-free diet and those on regular diets.[31] A long term double-blind clinical trial sponsored by the National Institute of Mental Health ran from 2004 until November 2008; as of July 2009, results are not yet available[32].

        Gluten sensitivity is also seen as a a genetically inheritable problem. Though limited studies have been conducted some people have seen the gluten free diet improve their life while handling problems such as,Parkinsonís disease, Multiple sclerosis, Seizures, Cognitive problems, Type 2 and Type 1 diabetes, Down syndrome, Rheumatoid arthritis, and other medical conditions. [33] While treating other conditions people need to be aware that some medications contain gluten. With gluten being an ingredient in medication it is highly advised that a person on the gluten free diet consult a doctor and check the labels of medications before beginning a medication. [34]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

          Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
          A fellow TG'er linked me a speech by RFK Jr. ranting about the anti-virus conspiracy, so I asked about it on an autism forum I belong to. I was told to check out a book called "Fear of the Invisible":

          http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/
          Order from Amazon.com

          A positive review of the book:

          http://liamscheff.com/daily/2008/09/...e-book-review/

          A cursory google didn't immediately find any real criticism of the book.

          The general theme seems to be that vaccines are badly contaminated (not just mercury, but various cellular debris) even after the FDA reduces the allowed contamination levels, virus research is full of bad practices, and the reports are getting buried.

          My first instinct is to assume that this is a tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracist. But how do you tell the difference between a whack job and a legitimate whistle blower in such a niche technical field?
          I asked my doctor about this and brought up the "other stuff" in vaccines. He told me it doesn't really matter what other "stuff" are in the shots. Vaccines are one of the most closely watched practices in the medical field. They are constantly tracked by different agencies throughout the world and there is no evidence that vaccines cause anything but mild side effects like local swelling and some low grade fever. Except for those allergic to the specific ingredients there is no risk.

          To think otherwise is to yell about rainbows in the sprinkler. (That is going to be my new tag line.)
          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

            Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
            Autism btw seems very attractive somehow to conspiracy-ish fantasies.
            Note that there are two schools of thoughts here:

            The anguished parents who search for any reason for their kid's condition, no matter how slim the evidence, and adults who don't want to be "cured" of all the advantages they get from high focus.

            You'll find very vocal adults with autism putting down the vaccine theory of autism origins. That was why I posted the original question to that autism forum. It surprised me to get a reply favoring the conspiracy nuts.

            Why Does the Vaccine/Autism Controversy Live On?
            http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jun...oversy-live-on
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

              The problem is scratch that a lot of people dont have a basic understanding of genetic perpetuity. If you start with a gene pool consisting of 100 people and 5 of them carry the gene for autism (its actually a multi-gene complex, but lets not digress), the gene will get passed on. Basic principle. What people fail to understand is that the autism gene is a recombinant positive gene at a 50% ratio in genetic recombination. This means that if you have one parent that has the gene and one doesnt, you have no chance of being born autistic, but a 50% chance of being a carrier. If you have two parents that carry the gene, you have a 50% chance of being born autistic.

              But play the mathematical odds. If you start out with a 1 in 20 ratio from that original population of 100, you have a minimal risk of being born autistic and an equally small risk of being a carrier. However, once that population booms to 10000 or one million, the number of carriers increases to a 1 in 15 or 1 in 12 ratio respectively on a randomized scale (at the low end of the probability scale [low end meaning least likely to occur but favoring the highest odds of carrying the gene]). Now, consider the results with a population of 6 billion and the number approaches 1 in 4 at the low end for carriers and 1 in 17 for having the gene double up. In reality, the probability falls somewhere towards the middle, since we obviously didnt start the human race with 100 people. We're looking more at a ratio of 1 in 24 for carriers and 1 in 90 for doubling up (thus making the odds significantly less for actually being born autistic). However, as the human race grows, more and more people are born with the gene, and there are geneticists who postulate that unless a cure for the "autism gene" is found or we experience some form of natural selection by fragmenting the population (such as space colonization), by the time the active population of the human race reaches 10 billion people, over 90% of the population will be carriers.

              Its basic science. Its a recombinant dominant gene, unlike having red hair, which is a recombinant recessive and causing the trait to slowly die off. People just dont get it or dont want to believe it because its big and evil and scary science. Conspiracy theories and believing celebrities who take the spotlight and blame doctors and pharmacologists for their kids lot in life is much easier. Reason and rationality are two things that the human race hasnt ever been good at.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                I also question the "1 percent of the population of children in the U.S. ages 3-17 have an autism spectrum disorder."

                I don't really question the number it but I question if this is really new. If they had the same level of testing and technology/desire to find it would the number be different from 50 or 100 years ago? How does insurance and health care play into the case loads reported? I know Oklahoma is pushing (or has passed) laws that require health insurance companies to cover autism cases. Will this increase the case loads?

                Autism is a spectrum disorder. Spectrum disorders are kinda loosy goosy when it come time to diagnose? How many cases are misdiagnosed because it is the new disorder of the day? Is it taking the place of the hyper activity disorder?

                I have many of the symptoms. Maybe I am autistic.

                * Insistence on sameness; resistance to change
                * Difficulty in expressing needs; using gestures or pointing instead of words
                * Repeating words or phrases in place of normal, responsive language
                * Laughing (and/or crying) for no apparent reason; showing distress for reasons not apparent to others
                * Preference to being alone; aloof manner
                * Tantrums
                * Difficulty in mixing with others
                * Not wanting to cuddle or be cuddled
                * Little or no eye contact
                * Unresponsive to normal teaching methods
                * Sustained odd play
                * Spinning objects
                * Obsessive attachment to objects
                * Apparent over-sensitivity or under-sensitivity to pain
                * No real fears of danger
                * Noticeable physical over-activity or extreme under-activity
                * Uneven gross/fine motor skills
                * Non-responsive to verbal cues; acts as if deaf, although hearing tests are in normal range

                I had (and still have) those symptoms in bold. I was never diagnosed. Would I be today? I was a huge problem child in school so I bet I would be.
                Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                  You're absolutely right when comparing it with ADD/ADHD. Remember when 10 years ago every parent with a 5 year old who went spontaneously from playing in the sandbox to climbing a tree was screaming "my kid has ADD"? I certainly do. Then they figured out "hey, wait, thats the same way I was when I was 5 and there wasnt anything wrong with me, maybe thats just how 5 year olds are."

                  As far as diagnosing an ASD (autsim spectrum disorder), it is extremely shaky ground, because not everyone with one of the many disorders that can be classified as autism is a severe case. For example, I exhibit many of the symptoms exhibited above, and also have a very very effortless and seemingly intuitive knack for all things medical. Does this mean I'm an autistic savant? Possibly, but if so, its an extremely mild manifestation. However, I also know people who have severe disorders that limit their interaction with people due to very very limited social skills and mental comprehension, but also possess extreme savant-like abilities in other areas (a lifelong friend of mine has a younger brother, Edward, who is completely incapable of speaking to anyone he hasnt known for years, but can calculate immense mathematics in his head and can play over 40 musical instruments [rated at a professional symphonic level] without ever having taken a single lesson).

                  So yes, there can be a possibility for huge errors in misdiagnosis and cases going undiagnosed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                    Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                    You're absolutely right when comparing it with ADD/ADHD. Remember when 10 years ago every parent with a 5 year old who went spontaneously from playing in the sandbox to climbing a tree was screaming "my kid has ADD"? I certainly do. Then they figured out "hey, wait, thats the same way I was when I was 5 and there wasnt anything wrong with me, maybe thats just how 5 year olds are."
                    I was raised before the wave and only recently diagnosed with ADD, although all of the symptoms of ADD at that time were attributed to simple childhood development any my 'gifted' status. After being diagnosed this year and starting medication my concentration levels and mood (due to reduced frustration) have improved immensely, I really wish I would have been diagnosed back when I was in school.

                    That said, it takes time to diagnose and is not something to throw medication at 'just in case'. I'm just hoping the backlash doesn't keep kids who really have the condition from getting help or being automatically assumed to be one of the 'normal kids'.
                    |TG-6th|Snooggums

                    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                      I have to chime in with my opinion that Autism does not warrant it's name or category. This supposed diseas (it is actually a syndrome = purely descriptive collection of symptoms) is supposed to be something that was just 'invented' less than some 50 or 60 years ago. In my view therefor the label autism actually clouds our vision of the object more -by omitting previous/hystorical interpretations of the symptoms- than it illuminates.

                      The whole way the DSM is a building that is built on shabby fundamentals is a big part of the mystery of autism. And they just keep adding shabby floor upon floor onto that building, hoping that somehow, one day, you will have a well built building. Well it's never going to happen.

                      This fundamental problem with the diagnosis of autism, the category of autism, for ever impedes any real 'discoveries' or real understanding. ALL of the research is so much flawed it's not even funny. Because, all of the research assumes that
                      -autism is a diesease
                      -that has a common cause
                      -that is diagnosed correctly in general, i.e. the tools we have for diagnosis are adequat to use as reliable and valid bases for the research to follow.

                      As you can see, the fact that autism isn't even convincingly groupable in one etiological category (=symptoms with known common cause), makes for a failure in the assumptions on which ALL autism research is based. Including, Ferris, the research which speaks about the genetic factors. This cannot be. The diagnostic methods aren't good enough to ever warrant those conclusions about genes. These conclusions are so faulty, yet so popular it is abhorrent. You can't say someone has autism, or even really what autism is supposed to be. How can one ever decide then that it is hereditary. OMG I just don't get it. Most of the autism research to me is just as flawed as ayurvedic scent therapy or other mumbo jumbo.

                      And for those that don't know, I do have a psychology mastr, so I'm not just getting this off some crazy website. I am getting this from a school of psychology which is unknown in the anglo-saxon world, because these countries have much embraced the more quantitative paradigms. One can even say the anglo-saxon world has become blind for all but quantitative psychology.

                      You can flame me, but I'm certainly willing to discuss these things in more detail, or explain my views if I sparked some interest.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                        The said truth is that vaccination in a victim of it own success. The vaccination programs in the US have been so successful that may illnesses, polio, measles and the like have all but been eliminated. As a result, many college educated, "i think i know better", parents that were protected by vaccines, don't remember the illnesses, or anyone ever having the illnesses, so they just think it is a wast of time. They don't realize that the only reason that no one every got sick in their lifetime was because of vaccinations.

                        If you want to see an interesting interview about this short of thing take a look.

                        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31388323...nancy#33890650

                        | |

                        My friends call me Y. My enemies call me... well, that's a secret.


                        "The only reason I team killed you is because I though you were already dead...
                        ...Oh god, I just know that is going in someones signature" - Eroak

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                          Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                          I have to chime in with my opinion that Autism does not warrant it's name or category. This supposed diseas (it is actually a syndrome = purely descriptive collection of symptoms) is supposed to be something that was just 'invented' less than some 50 or 60 years ago. In my view therefor the label autism actually clouds our vision of the object more -by omitting previous/hystorical interpretations of the symptoms- than it illuminates.

                          You can flame me, but I'm certainly willing to discuss these things in more detail, or explain my views if I sparked some interest.
                          Autism is a disorder, not a disease or syndrome. It also has a range of severity so just because someone has autism doesn't mean they are a savant, just like my ADD doesn't keep me from being able to focus on things I really enjoy even without medication.
                          |TG-6th|Snooggums

                          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                            Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                            Autism is a disorder, not a disease or syndrome. It also has a range of severity so just because someone has autism doesn't mean they are a savant, just like my ADD doesn't keep me from being able to focus on things I really enjoy even without medication.
                            I disagree that autism is a disorder. Or a disease. Calling it a disorder is just a form of eufemism. It servers for people to be more inclined to accept a flawed diagnosis. It still however paints the impression (as does using the word disease) that you know the etiology.

                            The basic thing is
                            0) Observe symptoms
                            2) Tentatively group symptoms under one name= Syndrome
                            3) Identify cause
                            4) Name disease/disorder.

                            For autism, and exactly the same for ADD, ADHD and all the fashionable variants, they are at step nr. 0)
                            And they ACT as if they are at step nr. 4)

                            I'm sorry, but to me this is a huge farce. A big illusion. Not autism, not ADHD is a disorder. They are syndromes. Tentative categories. Yet people act like they are entities similar to malaria, or measels.

                            I know this is a lot to ask from the people in this thread though. The ideas I present are totally unknown in anglo-saxon society, but not at all in other cultural groups like south- american or french speaking areas. And on top of that the people in this thread have an emotional connection to the subject, which makes it very hard to consider new ideas. There is much comfort to be found in the illusion of fitting into a category. The feeling of "knowing why your different" that one gets with a diagnosis, is very strong. This function of the diagnosis, whether it is incorrect or not, is part of how the whole thing got so skewed.

                            At the root of the diagnostical problem is the acceptance of DSM (diagnostical and statistical manual of disease classification). No research can be trusted much if it is based on the diagnosis made with the DSM system. Although, some diseases are more problematic in this respect. Some diseases/disorders are more easily grouped to causes, and therefor easier to do VALID research on. A good example of this would be PTSD in an iraq vet, vs ADHD for a 6yr old kid that doesn't comply to orders to sit still at a desk all day. That kid clearly is terribly sick :p.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fear of the Invisible: the virus scam

                              I'll partially agree with you in that calling it a "disorder" suggests that there's something "broken" that must be "fixed". The high-focus aspect of Aspergers is very useful on some occupations, at the same time it causes social problems. Someone with Aspergers might see a "neuro-typical" (the rest of the population, referred to as NT's) as "broken" because they can't attain the same degree of focus and insist on bizarre social dances rather than just honestly coming out and saying what's on their mind.

                              I think the DSM is at what you number as "2". (What happened to step 1? Or is that what your step zero is supposed to be?) Your step 2 is where you identify a collection of symptoms as a syndrome, and after that you try to identify one or more causes. I guess it's like identifying that you can trigger frog leg twitching with a battery, but you don't yet know anything about how muscles work.
                              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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