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  • Bashing the Military

    Edited
    Last edited by Dimitrius; 10-21-2017, 02:10 PM.

    Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

    "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

    Friend of |TG| Chief

  • #2
    Re: Bashing the Military

    Sounds to me that you showed the maturity that your years of service indicate. If you had challenged their infantile prattle while you were angry, I'm sure it would have been dismissed but the army quit accepting drop outs and malcontents years ago and recruit from the brightest and the best these days and you can number yourself among them.
    Forewarned is Forearmed




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    • #3
      Re: Bashing the Military

      I am only 20 but I witnessed many similar things here in my country. Here there is an option to serve as civilian instead of soldier, and many of those who are too weak physically or mentally go that way (majority of my generation). And they think they are smart doing that. Ok I mind my own business. But when they start talking that those that serve in uniform are stupid and stuff, and my father and many ancestors served that way and fought and some of them died... Well, I am hard pressed not to kick their arse. I am young and havn't seen anything better, but from what I hear, system of values changed drastically these days.
      EDIT
      I remember watching a movie with school about Salonika Front. That was for my people like Stalingrad for Russians. Some of the idiots just messed around it and like joked about some old veteran that fought there that was in the movie. I almost got hated by entire school for my reactions for that (not that I care). Can't believe that amount of disrespect towards the people that gave so much for their country, our country!

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      • #4
        Re: Bashing the Military

        Originally posted by Dimitrius View Post
        How could these kids understand all of the emotional and serious arguements I was ready to fire in rapid succession at them? They are just kids. They don't know anything. But it really pissed me off. When I was out there, men died. I could have died. Some of the soldiers joined to find purpose in their life. Some did out of a sense of honor. We all put our Country first. Everything about it, the name, the soil, the freedom, the orders, the blood, the history, the Entirety! The Devotion.
        You answered it right there. The ignorance of youth or lack of exposure to a situation causes people to say stupid things about that situation, and they most likely wouldn't understand an explanation anyway.

        I'm not sure if you are more or less inclined to come across these situations during your time in the military I've also had to overhear the following exchanges:

        People talking about someone of another race in a very derogatory manner in a way intended to rile a person of that race in the next booth.

        People commenting on their moral views by deriding people that make perfectly legal choices. They didn't know it but one of the persons who overheard it had to make that choice due to being forced into that situation by a criminal act.

        People talking about some activity they did over the weekend that involved criminally taking advantage of someone who was too intoxicated to know what was going on.

        People deriding military people for being in the military, military people questioning the patriotism of someone with a lack of military duty.

        I'd say you did the best you could for that situation if you were getting angry about it. I've found that even intelligent people have trouble understanding a situation they aren't in, and they tend to think of people in other situations as beneath them to justify their own choices. Be proud of your service and just think that part of your duty was standing up for the constitution that allows them to have their ignorant opinions.
        |TG-6th|Snooggums

        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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        • #5
          Re: Bashing the Military

          I have trained myself to pause or walk away from a situation if I'm getting pissed. I don't react immediately. After I calm down. I ask myself. Does it have to be said? Does it have to be said now? Does it have to be said by me? In the time given it would have been impossible for you to convince those kids into your way of thinking, especially with an angry voice. If you yelled at them they would have to plant their feet harder in their ignorance in order to save face. Only in a cooperative manner could you have changed their mind, and clearly there was no time for that. Best thing you could have done is just left or next time send the waiter over with a round of cokes compliments of the men in the US military. Just to let them know you were there. That would have been funny.

          If you grew up exactly the way those kids grew up you would be saying the same things and vice verse. We are products of our environment.

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          • #6
            Re: Bashing the Military

            Ignore it and move on in life. People are entitled to their own opinion and it is their right to say as they wish.

            They would not have that freedom to even talk like that if it not were for the soldiers that came before them to fight for that freedom.
            Last edited by TheBigC; 12-01-2009, 11:01 PM.
            "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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            • #7
              Re: Bashing the Military

              You did wel not to get angry at them. You will feel angry when I say this: in some way I agree with them. I don't at all think it is a smart choice to go and be an infantry man in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nor is it wise to cross a street when the light is red because you might get killed.

              I used to be very much like those kids. However meeting the American culture, seeing how ingrained the military is in some towns, in some families and the way of thinking, has made me understand why people make these choices.

              My point is I guess, that while it is surely very harsh for you to hear the kids go off so rudely, their point of view is just as valid as yours. Mind you they didn't say these things to hurt you or spite you. You were overhearing it by accident.

              In a way also, this hurt you a lot, because you made your choice a long time ago, and I gather you payed for that in blood and tears. This doesn't make their point of view invalid, but it makes it nearly impossible for you to consider they might be right. Because if you considered that... all your sacrifices would be for nothing.

              I hope you understand that I am not trying to hurt you either here. But reading the thread, I felt it needed to be said these kids weren't per se wrong. Rude or inconsiderate, they were.

              As a person living in Belgium, possibly the most invaded country in the world. I personally feel a bit taken aback by the argument of "defending your country".

              It is IMO morally VERY wrong to equate a war of defense -like the two world wars, where we defended our land, and were so glad twice to sollicit and get the help of America- with an invasion. Fighting for your own house on your own land in your own village is not the same as bombing houses in the middle east by far.

              As a conclusion I'd say: I truly admire that you didn't cause trouble there, I won't ever pretend that I can imagine how such things must hurt. You have every right to find what they say horrible, yet that sadly does not make it wrong.

              Ps sorry if this is offensive. I thought long about whether I would post this, as I don't want to hurt anyone at all. I chose to post, because you asked for thoughts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bashing the Military

                Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                This doesn't make their point of view invalid, but it makes it nearly impossible for you to consider they might be right.
                As a former service member myself, I fail to see how the sentiment expressed in the follow quote "might be right" in any way at all.

                Originally posted by Dimitrius
                ...when they started talking about how people who are "dumb" enough to join the military are "dumb" enough to get killed.
                What it is an utter lack of respect and patriotism. I was raid to have pride in my country and to respect those that serve regardless of which branch, where or how long.



                - -


                "..good sportsmanship shouldn't be sacrificed in the name of teamwork. " --WhiskeySix

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                • #9
                  Re: Bashing the Military

                  Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                  It is IMO morally VERY wrong to equate a war of defense -like the two world wars, where we defended our land, and were so glad twice to sollicit and get the help of America- with an invasion. Fighting for your own house on your own land in your own village is not the same as bombing houses in the middle east by far.
                  Everything you said up until this point I was understanding. I did not bomb houses. I followed orders, and joined the military before the Iraq war started. That is a very sour subject for me so I will leave it at that. I do believe it may be very easy to couple an unjust war with the entirety of the soldiers that fight it, but that is not the truth. There is more to war than just the forces that fight it and the results it may incur. I hated my time there.

                  EDIT: *This part was removed because I am new here and do not believe that my emotional response may be appreciated. That really upset me the further I read it, I did not ask about the Iraq war, just a response to my incident*

                  Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                  "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                  Friend of |TG| Chief

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bashing the Military

                    Wars are evil, no matter where they are and why they exist. They are worse than hell because (if we are to believe the Bible) only sinners go to hell, yet the innocent as well as the sinful are affected by war.

                    But every soldier, sailor, marine or airman I've ever met has been a shining example of an honourable person, putting their own life, limb and happiness at risk for something greater than themselves; and thus I support my countries soldiers and those of our allies no matter what as they do their duty no matter what is asked of them; they didn't start the war, but we count on them to finish them.

                    "Any soldier worth his salt should be anti-war. And yet there are things still worth fighting for."

                    Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr

                    Dimitrius, thank you for your service; you are right to be angry at these kids; they demonstrated a severe lack of respect.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bashing the Military

                      Originally posted by Dimitrius View Post
                      Everything you said up until this point I was understanding. I did not bomb houses. I followed orders, and joined the military before the Iraq war started. That is a very sour subject for me so I will leave it at that. I do believe it may be very easy to couple an unjust war with the entirety of the soldiers that fight it, but that is not the truth. There is more to war than just the forces that fight it and the results it may incur. I hated my time there.

                      EDIT: *This part was removed because I am new here and do not believe that my emotional response may be appreciated. That really upset me the further I read it, I did not ask about the Iraq war, just a response to my incident*

                      I know my post was going to be on the edge for you, thanks for such a fair response, I respect that a lot. I think it must be indeed very different whether you joined before or after teh wars started or not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bashing the Military

                        I encountered a snot-nose teenager and his friends who made 9-11 jokes... on base...

                        I chose the same thing you did - move on, very reluctantly.

                        I'd rather see this thread not spiral out of control - there's something to be discussed here. "Morality" of the current conflicts is opinion only...

                        Everyone is entitled to their opinions - even the teenagers. They're young. Hell, I bet I said some of the same stuff when I was younger, about the same things. And now I'm in uniform...
                        Skud


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                        • #13
                          Re: Bashing the Military

                          The reason why we fight is for those at home to speak and express themselves in their own way. With that said, I abhor people who bash the military. When encountered with the same scenario, I politely ask them what would happen if brave young men and women were not prepared to die for them. What kind of America would we live in? When then don't answer and begin to awkwardly fidget, I ask them to say the same things around their father, Grandfather, Great-Grandfather, Uncle, Brother, Mom, Aunt..etc and see how they react. Then i walk away...

                          After I leave they probably go on and tell their friends how they met a Crazy Vet at the restaurant last night.... Education is key.

                          [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prjLfLSujA0[/media]

                          Such Ignorance and disrespect..
                          "Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." Gen. George Patton

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bashing the Military

                            Originally posted by Dimitrius View Post
                            But it severely pissed me off when they started talking about how people who are "dumb" enough to join the military are "dumb" enough to get killed.
                            While in the Navy we said the same things about the jar heads (and army grunts if they where around). They would call us wussies (used a slightly different word of course). Better a live wussy than a dead idiot we would retort. And on and on it would go until the fight broke out.

                            But at least we could all agree that the real wussies where the air force gals.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                            • #15
                              Re: Bashing the Military

                              Originally posted by Dimitrius View Post
                              I do believe it may be very easy to couple an unjust war with the entirety of the soldiers that fight it, but that is not the truth.
                              Any student of history will see the comparison to Vietnam, where the soldiers were dragged down with the public view of the war they fought. I'm not happy about Iraq II (the first was mildly excusable) but I don't judge the soldiers based on the war even if they joined up just to fight that war. They are still fighting for their ideals.
                              |TG-6th|Snooggums

                              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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