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  • #16
    Re: Bashing the Military

    Originally posted by Dimitrius View Post
    This is both to get something off of my chest and to see how others would have responded.

    I'm 28. Was in the service for 9 years. Details other than that are unimportant.

    Two nights ago I was in a resturant/bar with my fiance and three friends, two of whom were ex service members too. We were just eating and drinking and engaging in general debauchery. Not bothering anyone around us and minding our space. Two boths over was a table with a couple of teenagers laughing and making fun of soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, I was a teenager once and I remember being loud and obnoxous and everything that contributes to the stereotype so I can understand the base of their behaviour. But it severely pissed me off when they started talking about how people who are "dumb" enough to join the military are "dumb" enough to get killed.

    This and other naive things got me rather heated.

    Who am I to interupt their conversation? Who am I to Involve myself in their conversation? I have no right to do that, and I didn't,...but let me tell you, I was pissed.

    How could these kids understand all of the emotional and serious arguements I was ready to fire in rapid succession at them? They are just kids. They don't know anything. But it really pissed me off. When I was out there, men died. I could have died. Some of the soldiers joined to find purpose in their life. Some did out of a sense of honor. We all put our Country first. Everything about it, the name, the soil, the freedom, the orders, the blood, the history, the Entirety! The Devotion.

    We left and I talked about it with my Fiance and she helped calm me down and now as I sit here an type it all out I feel better because it's nothing.

    But it sure made me mad at the time. I am glad I wasn't drinking heavily and was able to keep my cool.

    Thoughts?

    Semper TG.
    You showed them power under control.

    I applaud you for your service and am proud that you represent me to the world. Well done soldier. :icon_cool
    The Old Guy
    kin3
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    • #17
      Re: Bashing the Military

      To all who responded or will respond in the future, thank you for the sentiment and opinions. I have a love hate relationship with the military and my service. That is, I loved my service and the honor I felt and still feel from the uniform and oath. I hated the experience that I had to be put through and the resulting affect it had on me. To this day I have difficulty understanding the views of some people and the feelings that develop as a result. I am not an ethnocentric or sadistic man, but some people look at me like I am when I mention I was in the military. In my opinion, I live in the greatest place in the world, but that is because its my Country and I grew up here. It is very difficult to put into words the feelings and views that I have.

      Semper TG

      Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

      "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

      Friend of |TG| Chief

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      • #18
        Re: Bashing the Military

        Teenagers are stupid, you cant take what they say seriously.

        If this story involved only adults... Then I reserve the right to #$%^ them up
        doYouEvenLuftwaffe

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        • #19
          Re: Bashing the Military

          The Video BC2ID only infuriates me...

          The woman was probably pro war before her son died in Iraq. Now she is suddenly anti-war; Ungrateful, and completely a dishonor to her late son.

          "we're not in the air force, you have not authority over us..."

          "We are for the troops..."

          "I get assaulted, by this old man"

          While he may have acted out of line, the point remains that she has no respect for the man or the uniform he wears... He's a retired Vet...

          God that group makes me sick. So sick.
          Skud


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          • #20
            Re: Bashing the Military

            Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
            The Video BC2ID only infuriates me...

            The woman was probably pro war before her son died in Iraq. Now she is suddenly anti-war; Ungrateful, and completely a dishonor to her late son.

            "we're not in the air force, you have not authority over us..."

            "We are for the troops..."

            "I get assaulted, by this old man"

            While he may have acted out of line, the point remains that she has no respect for the man or the uniform he wears... He's a retired Vet...

            God that group makes me sick. So sick.
            I agree with everything you have said. What she forgets is that "old man" has just as much to be there as she does (in some respects more right). I also think she is sullying her son's memory by screaming and yelling at a WWII vet.
            "Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." Gen. George Patton

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            • #21
              Re: Bashing the Military

              Ya, funny enough those are the type of people we are fighting for. Ya I'm so dumb... had a 4.0 in high school, 3.7 with a bachelors degree in college, and joined the Army Infantry.

              I would have had some words with those kids as well :)
              __________________
              |TG|||---DoRo---||

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              • #22
                Re: Bashing the Military

                I think many people fail to make the distinction between the military and government foreign policy. The military is a ultimately a tool of the government's will, and they have no choice but to follow those orders. They are at the mercy of our elected officials.

                I've met many good people that were in the military. As someone else stated, some join because because their life was going nowhere, others because of a deep sense of honor and service to their country. While I may disagree that they (the military) are defending our civil liberties in the current conflicts, I stick the blame squarely where it belongs on the politicians, business, and banking interests that are sending them there.

                I dislike the jingoistic and meaningless $1.99 SUV ribbons and the catch all slogan of "support our troops". If you support our troops, write them letters, volunteer at the vet centers, make them feel welcome when they return to civilian life. Don't disguise your support of the war by hiding under the 'support our troops' to derail any debate to the contrary. This was a bigger issue in the buildup and early part of the Iraq war.
                Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
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                • #23
                  Re: Bashing the Military

                  Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
                  The Video BC2ID only infuriates me...

                  The woman was probably pro war before her son died in Iraq. Now she is suddenly anti-war; Ungrateful, and completely a dishonor to her late son.

                  "we're not in the air force, you have not authority over us..."

                  "We are for the troops..."

                  "I get assaulted, by this old man"

                  While he may have acted out of line, the point remains that she has no respect for the man or the uniform he wears... He's a retired Vet...

                  God that group makes me sick. So sick.
                  At least I'm doing my part as a pacifist, by having war-mongering gun-loving military types as friends :). Seriously though. It is nice to meet, knowing that there is such a huge divide in the attitude towards war between the Anglo-saxon countries, (uk-us-australia mainly). the whole pre-emptive war doctrine being critical in that.

                  The most important thing imo, in light of the first post more specifically, is:
                  to keep making the effort to imagine how the other person became to be how he is, became to believe what he believes, instead of becoming angry and divisive.

                  Meeting the gun-toting reality of American society (it is compared to Europe), has made me personally realize to my amazement, that if I grew up in one of the typically american military towns, I might be in Afghanistan right now.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Bashing the Military

                    This has been an interesting post, as I am in the Army and scored almost off the ASVAB charts. I havent done any college because school is really boring and I did something early in my life that kinda kept me from it. I started out in Field Artillery and am now in Signal.

                    To my point, I can understand those that are anti-war. I can understand those that are pacifists. But those that would even remotely back up the sentiments of teenage sophomoric, prattle I just cant really get past. To say that they might be correct or right or anywhere close to correct in thought is just too much. To say that those that joined any military are too stupid to live is just crazy. There are alot of my fellow soldiers that joined the military to escape bad situations at home or in their neighborhoods. Is this stupid? Some joined so they could afford to goto college, because they couldnt afford to attend on their own. Is this stupid? Some joined so they could better take care of their loved ones or because of the recent economic down turn. Is this stupid?

                    Almost all of these reasons are pretty good examples of Selfless Service, which is one of the Army values. The first example is just good thinking to begin with. The Army would not be one of my first choices for anyone. There needs to be a want or drive to be in the military in general. But the living standards in the military are getting better. The benefits for service are hard to beat. Also, did you know that when you take the civilian populace and compare it to the military populace, service members are actually better educated? Percentage wise, there are more persons holding a bachelor degree or higher in the military than in the civilian sector.

                    |TG-IRR|

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                    • #25
                      Re: Bashing the Military

                      Originally posted by Beinseth View Post
                      To my point, I can understand those that are anti-war.
                      We should be pro-war?

                      I can't think of any reason to like war. It sucks. Many people die in gruesome ways. Children get blown up. Cool, expensive things like houses and schools and power stations get destroyed.

                      I am anti-war but I don't consider myself a pacifist.
                      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                      • #26
                        Re: Bashing the Military

                        To assume that I am pro-war, because I can understand why some are anti-war is a bit of a stretch. I would say that I dont like war, but am not against the current wars.

                        |TG-IRR|

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                        • #27
                          Re: Bashing the Military

                          Originally posted by Beinseth View Post
                          To assume that I am pro-war, because I can understand why some are anti-war is a bit of a stretch. I would say that I dont like war, but am not against the current wars.
                          I don't think it is a stretch. I know a few that like war (at least they claim to).

                          But I am anti-war. This probably goes to those that can't understand how somebody could "oppose the war but support the troops". It is the same as those who support choice but appose abortions.

                          We recognize both the fact that war is evil but, because of human nature, is also sometimes the lesser evil.
                          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                          • #28
                            Re: Bashing the Military

                            It occurs to me that maybe, just maybe those kids were solicited earlier that day by a military recruiter. After hearing a bunch of half-truths about how great it would be to enlist I could imagine how they might end up having a discussion about people joining the military being "dumb" and "getting killed".

                            Still, you can expect teenagers to be self-absorbed and ignorant like that. Good on you for keeping your cool.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Bashing the Military

                              In my opinion the only people who have any legitimate right to 'bash' the military are other soldiers or veterans. Civilians should direct their opinions at the public officials who made the decision to put the military into whatever situation and circumstances they find themselves in.

                              Right now, the US armed forces are being stressed to their limits fighting two wars (and now escalating one of them) that much of the country is hardly paying any price for whatsoever.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Bashing the Military

                                Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
                                I encountered a snot-nose teenager and his friends who made 9-11 jokes... on base...
                                Almost all humor is based on pain. It's a coping mechanism. It's a kind of whistling in the graveyard.

                                Examine closely the next joke you laugh at. Who's pain is being "enjoyed"? I just finished reading the Tiger Woods thread, where Tiger, his wife, his girlfriends, many TG members, and their familes are butts of various amusing cracks. I found them funny, but it doesn't reduce my sympathy for their targets.
                                Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                                snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                                Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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