Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

    Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

    A church in Phoenix has lost a court battle to run a charity dining hall for the city's homeless. The problem is, the court's ruling sets a precedent for all churches zoned in residential areas of Phoenix. While the ruling raises larger issues about the concentration of the homeless in cities, the immediate concern is the challenges the city's homeless may face finding a meal in the coming weeks.

    The controversy surrounding the Crossroads United Methodist Church's weekly pancake breakfast began last spring when neighbors complained about an increase in the number of homeless people in the neighborhood. With the increase in homeless individuals in the area came an uptick in their undesirable behaviors, including "panhandling, burglary, public intoxication and vandalism, among other things," according to AZ Family.

    The judge's ruling is harsh at first glance, but it's important to consider the perspective of the church's neighbors. Just as any homeless person should have a right to safe, decent, and affordable housing, the neighbors of Crossroads United Methodist Church have a right to feel safe in their home. Still, this ruling seems to be a strategic interpretation of residential zoning laws designed to control the homeless population. Restricting services from residential areas will keep "unsightly" homeless people out of certain parts of the city and concentrate them in others. And you know what they say: out of sight, out of mind.

    Crossroads United Methodist Church has not decided if they will continue to fight the judge's ruling. At the very least, if they decide not to fight, I hope they and all of the other churches impacted by this decision choose to relocate their weekly meal rather than cancel it completely. While taking a stand against the concentration of the homeless and the poor is a fight worth waging, the immediate needs of those who are hurting cannot be ignored.
    I would bet that some of those folks that pushed for the ban call themselves Christians. Well, lets see what Jesus says about feeding the poor:

    Matthew 25:34-45 (New International Version)

    34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

    37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

    40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

    41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

    44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

    45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Source.
    Sounds pretty cut and dry, Jesus was an advocate of feeding the poor apparently.

    For his efforts in banning the churches from feeding the homeless, Phoenix City Councilman Sal DiCiccio was named 'Nanny of the Month' by ReasonTV:

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ9rep_LtvY[/media]
    Now the church has appealed the ban so they are up and feeding the homeless for the time being until the final decision is made. Board of Adjustment to hear CrossRoads case. I have lived in neighborhoods where churches did this type of thing, I understand that you might have some 'undesirables' walking through the neighborhood at any given time. But I never had a problem with it, live and let live, people have to eat, even the ones that America loves to hate. Unless they are in my yard, now thats a different situation. Most of the time they are just passing through, and walking either on the sidewalk or the street, both being public right of way.

    There might be an even bigger issue here. The church could claim that as part of their worship to their God they like to feed the poor. Wouldn't that be getting into a Constitutional issue, where as the 1st amendment says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Also, "the court's ruling sets a precedent for all churches zoned in residential areas of Phoenix". So there are a lot of church charities affected by this decision as stated in the article above. Any thoughts?
    |TG-X| mp40x



    Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!


  • #2
    Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

    From what I gather from the article, its not so much a matter of the homeless peope walking through your neighborhood occasionally. Its the fact that this place offers free food and the homeless people MOVE into the neighborhood because its too much of a pain to have to hoof it from some greater distance. Subsequent to this, there is an increase in the crimes listed in the neighborhood. Now, without examining the statistics to see how bad it really is, I cant really comment on the legitimacy of the decision.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

      It is just another situation where homeless are pushed out in a 'not in my neighborhood' mentality (noted in the first post I know). If people don't like churches doing charity work in their neighborhood, they shouldn't live near a church. Per the article, the only thing they can't do for the homeless is feed them.

      I am loathe to believe that an increase in 'undesirable activities' is even happening, people always blame migrants and the homeless for those activities and the summary sure didn't give supporting evidence for that increase existing or being tied to the homeless, just some neighbors in the area's opinions.

      I live one block from a very old and prestigious neighborhood in my city. Although teenagers are the ones who are actually responsible for car burglaries and vandalisms guess who gets the blame? Guess who claims an increase in activity after a blood bank started up nearby and attracted poor people when police reports show a decline during that time instead? Yeah, the people who think their neighborhood is too good for specific people.
      |TG-6th|Snooggums

      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

        Come on, who moves into a neighborhood to have a bum parade going through 3 time a day. If they want to live off the grid, then they should be fed off the grid.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

          Well, the article seemed to claim that there was an uptick in burglary, panhandling, public intoxication, and vandalism concurrent to the homeless moving into the area. Yeah, a lot of bums are just folks down on their luck, but along with the dudes I have sympathy for there are the nasty buggers that I sure as hell wouldn't want my kid around.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

            Originally posted by Hambergler View Post
            If they want to live off the grid, then they should be fed off the grid.
            Is here where you tell us that all homeless people taking food are lazy buggers who would be working members of society if they'd just apply that good ol' 'mer'can grit and pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
            I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

              His original point applies, regardless of sentiment. A neighborhood with an embedded transient population is a neighborhood with gone-to-doodoo realty value. Humans are dirty animals, and if you have bums, you'll eventually get trash, disease, and human excrement. I remember the unpleasant task of running off bums at my first job that lived behind the dumpster on the side of the building, along with cleaning up their turd piles and washing away the urine smell. It's harsh, but I would've sided with the neighborhood over the church.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                Originally posted by Razcsak View Post
                Is here where you tell us that all homeless people taking food are lazy buggers who would be working members of society if they'd just apply that good ol' 'mer'can grit and pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
                On the way down. If someone wants to kill themselves slowly or stay high all the time, or defecate in public. I really don't want them in my life unless they want help. Sorry, but giving them food so they can continue their lifestyle is not helping them.

                I don't care if they work or not. There is the salvation army, mens and womens centers, welfare etc. There are many programs available for people who have made wrong choices in life or have mental illness. If you see a man drowning and you extend your hand to pull him out and he refuses to take it. Then you have no choice but to let him drowned. Or jump in and risk drowning yourself, saving a man that doesn't want to be saved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                  Being a poor grad student I live in an apartment complex on the border of a ghetto area of a city. I get homeless people knocking on my apartment door at 3am looking to sell me random stuff (that's obviously stolen) or beg for money with some ridiculous story. They must be looking in or listening at the windows to know that I'm still up. It's kind of scary because you don't know if they're doped up or going through withdrawal and desperate or what. The apartment used to offer furnishing, which they stored in the basement. Now they don't anymore because much of that stuff was stolen. I can't walk down my street without being accosted by people either people being verbally hostile or looking for money.

                  Sorry, I don't have sympathy for such people. It's actually very hard to remain homeless for prolonged periods of time in the US these days. People who are down on their luck yet trying are rarely homeless for a very long time. The main causes of prolonged homelessness in the US are mental illness and substance abuse. People afflicted with these problems can't keep down jobs or the like. They need professional, not community, help. I'm not sure what good it does to keep giving them free food. It just means they can keep living the way they do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                    Originally posted by Gill View Post
                    Well, the article seemed to claim that there was an uptick in burglary, panhandling, public intoxication, and vandalism concurrent to the homeless moving into the area.
                    The article used an impression claim by some neighbors, not actual data that would back that up. Neighbors spread rumors like middle schoolers spread rumors.
                    |TG-6th|Snooggums

                    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                      I think it is entirely reasonable to assume without hard data that concentrations of homeless lead to increases in begging for money and burglary of various items, along with public intoxication and vandalism. They're poor, destitute, and at rock-bottom with basically zero reason to follow the rules. If someone's giving out free food, why should you migrate into and out of the neighborhood to reach that free food? You stay close by.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                        Originally posted by Gill View Post
                        I think it is entirely reasonable to assume without hard data that concentrations of homeless lead to increases in begging for money
                        Yes
                        and burglary of various items,
                        No
                        along with public intoxication
                        Yes
                        and vandalism.
                        No

                        They're poor, destitute, and at rock-bottom with basically zero reason to follow the rules. If someone's giving out free food, why should you migrate into and out of the neighborhood to reach that free food? You stay close by.
                        Most are mentally ill, have had severe trauma other mentally disturbing history that has severed ties with others and keeps them from having a stable home. This does not mean they are thieving vandals, though most have alcoholism issues and beg due to not having income. Your opinion is very uninformed.
                        |TG-6th|Snooggums

                        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                          Bah! Those with no income are absolved from all suspicion of petty thievery and vandalism because of mental illness and/or severe trauma? How is it incorrect to assume that someone with no money would steal to potentially gain some? Are you equating this to "not guilty by way of insanity" or something? C'mon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                            I don't think we deal very well with the chronically homeless in this country. As sordavie pointed out most people that become homeless remain so for a short period.

                            The ones that remain homeless for long periods (years) are a scary bunch and I don't want them in my neighborhood. Most really need long term mental health care, which isn't generally available to those without means. Sometimes you need to force it.

                            Today we generally incarcerate them for short periods when they get out of hand and hope they don't do something serious like murder. Outside that we ignore them until they invade the space of the decent folk.

                            Some people try to help but all they can really do is simple things like feed them decent meals. This is a case where charity hurts more than it helps. It doesn't keep them on the street as some suggest. They would be their without the free food. What it does is attracts them to areas so that they can wreak havoc.

                            This is a case where government, local with possible state and federal help, needs to intervene.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Phoenix Church Ordered to Stop Feeding the Homeless

                              I'm reminded of the JMS neighbor thread, with the unwanted slob neighbor.

                              Realty values also remind me of the IP issue in the piracy thread. Your property's "value" is dependent on the actions/appearances of others, despite your own property having never been damaged or taken. It's value is partly based on the setting it's in, and doesn't stop at the property line. In effect, you own a chunk of everyone else's land in the area, because you have a say in how it's operated, and ownership is defined by control. But unless your deed has restrictions imposed by an association at the time of purchase, this ownership is nebulous and defined mostly by government edict beyond your control. (Unless, of course, you camp out at the government meetings and become the government.)
                              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X