Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

    I brought this topic over from the 'scope' thread since it deserves its own thread, and is controversial in its own right.

    It should be removed to protect the religious freedoms of all Christians, other religions, and those who refrain from faith. Since I'm already forced to use this depreciating cash currency, why should insult be added to injury by endorsing a state religion along with it?

    Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
    Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

  • #2
    Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

    It should be removed. The government proclaiming trust in a specific deity through printed currency is establishing a national religion, removing it from the money is appropriate for a free society.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

      No it should not be removed.

      It is not proclaiming a specific deity. It doesn't say 'In Jesus We Trust.'

      America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

      Besides it is not listed ANYWHERE in the Constitution there is a separation of Church and State. The First Amendment states: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;' AKA Congress shall not declare an official religion for the country.

      P.S. I'm a Libertarian & Atheist.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

        It is not proclaiming a specific deity. It doesn't say 'In Jesus We Trust.'
        But it is promoting a deity, presumably the one as understood by the 3 big monotheistic religions of the world. So as long as I stick to the Jewish, Christian, or Muslim interpretation of this God it is accepted by the state.

        The First Amendment states: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;' AKA Congress shall not declare an official religion for the country
        In the government's interpretation, they have declared a specific monotheistic religion, which is unofficially assumed to be the Judeo-Christian God.

        America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.
        To an extent, but it was also founded on the idea that people have freedom of thought and mind to choose their belief or non-belief without the state intervening in this process. The slogan (and by extension, the state) is interfering with this basic right.
        Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
        Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

          Originally posted by Global.Cooling View Post
          No it should not be removed.

          It is not proclaiming a specific deity. It doesn't say 'In Jesus We Trust.'

          America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

          Besides it is not listed ANYWHERE in the Constitution there is a separation of Church and State. The First Amendment states: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;' AKA Congress shall not declare an official religion for the country.

          P.S. I'm a Libertarian & Atheist.
          You are an ignorant Libertarian and Atheist.

          http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
          http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen

          Summarized: Most of the Founding Fathers were Deist who while they believed in a "Creator" saw the bible as a flawed work of man. All were men of the Age of Reason who sought to build a Nation free of the tyranny from not only monarchy but of theocratical rule by developing a Government based on Rule of Law.

          No, the US was not founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. As Jefferson said:
          Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

          -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

          Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

          -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

          Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

          -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
          Here's a lot of other Jefferson quotes that put the creation of the nation in context as decidedly NOT Judeo-Christian.
          http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
          |TG-6th|Snooggums

          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

            Originally posted by Global.Cooling View Post
            America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.
            Well, the land may have been settled by many with Judeo-Christian beliefs (the slave owners and such) but I have been taught that most of the actual founders of the government that is America where, at best, believers who knew where religion belonged.

            Some (maybe even many) of them had outright contempt for religion.

            That said I don't really care. Having reference to fairy tales on something that is an abstraction of value isn't a big deal to me. It has become like so much graffiti. The meaning has been lost to over exposure.
            I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

              Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
              That said I don't really care. Having reference to fairy tales on something that is an abstraction of value isn't a big deal to me. It has become like so much graffiti. The meaning has been lost to over exposure.
              Same here. I don't care for the phrase, but, really, I don't think much about it any more.
              Become a supporting member!
              Buy a Tactical Duck!
              Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
              TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                Well, the land may have been settled by many with Judeo-Christian beliefs
                Sorry that's what I meant. Many of the Founders/Settlers where Christians. And many of them wanted a government free from a religion being imposed upon them.

                @Snooggums: Jumping right to name calling huh? A simple 'You're wrong' would suffice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                  Originally posted by Global.Cooling View Post
                  America was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.
                  Oh?

                  Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously approved by the US Senate in 1797:

                  As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
                  That Senate was the original US senate, so is about as close to the founding fathers as we're going to get.

                  It serves no purpose and should be removed, just as "under God" should be removed from the PoA.
                  I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                    Lets keep this civil. I got this bad rep from an anonymous member:

                    you have got to be kidding me?! I hope you are not serious, if you are, then I am sorry for you, but you could move to another country and then you wouldn't have to worry.
                    Unfortunately this kind of response is prevalent among many people I have talked to about this issue. If I don't like "God" on our money, I should simply move to a different country. This is a tone this debate has taken on a national level, and I feel its being used as a wedge to divide people by the political ruling class, much as the "Happy Holidays" and "Merry Christmas" issue.

                    I think many Christians see its removal as an attack on their faith, and an effort by atheists and their allies to remove religion from public life. I couldn't disagree more. I am all for religious freedom, even though I'm an atheist and disagree greatly with religion. The issue is brought up in PROTECTION of Christian faith (whatever sect that might be), along with whatever other beliefs people may choose. I think that among the general public, there isn't a deep understanding that religious freedom needs to apply to other beliefs as well even if they're different from yours.

                    In my view, this is an old relic from the ideological Cold War and is improper now as it was then:

                    A law was passed by the 84th United States Congress (P.L. 84-851) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956. President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved a joint resolution declaring In God We Trust the national motto of the United States.[2] The same Congress had required, in the previous year, that the words appear on all currency, as a Cold War measure: "In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper" to "remind all of us of this self-evident truth" that "as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail."
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
                    Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                    Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                      Originally posted by Global.Cooling View Post
                      @Snooggums: Jumping right to name calling huh? A simple 'You're wrong' would suffice.
                      Ignorant is not 'name calling' when it is used appropriately. Calling someone ignorant for a clearly ignorant statement is like calling someone a liar when they are caught in a lie.

                      Ignorant means that you lack knowledge, which you showed by making a false statement. Saying you are ignorant is telling you that you are wrong, and also tells you why you are wrong. Just saying you were wrong wouldn't have been as helpful for you.

                      ig⋅no⋅rant
                        /ˈɪgnərənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ig-ner-uhnt]
                      –adjective
                      1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
                      2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
                      3. uninformed; unaware.
                      4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.
                      |TG-6th|Snooggums

                      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                        I'm somewhat of a Libertarian/Deist myself... and I think it would be better removed.
                        1. From the standpoint of many Christians I know, the statement is a lie for the government to be having printed on the money (sure it's the non-government FED printing it, but, anyway). Many Christians feel the government is going against the bulk of basic Christian principles (could list them, but I hope you know).
                        2. I think it does specify a deity. For a great length of time it's commonly inferred the Christian god. I'm not offended by it, though, and wouldn't go to any trouble of formally asking for it to be removed.

                        Per the quote from the Treaty of Tripoli: Sure, the federal government was not founded on the Christian religion. Most states, though, originally sponsored specific sects of the Christian religion. See this wiki article. To say that because the federal system of government had no direct religious ties our nation was not founded on Christianity is absurd.

                        sigpic
                        "The true genius shudders at incompleteness - and usually prefers silence to saying
                        something which is not everything it should be." — Edgar Allan Poe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                          Originally posted by aeroripper View Post
                          In my view, this is an old relic from the ideological Cold War and is improper now as it was then...
                          You forgot the rest of the article...

                          'In God We Trust' has been on US coins since at least 1864. This is not the product of cold war propaganda. Adding it to paper bills, yes that is a result of P.L. 84-851 but this issue is a lot older then just the 1950's.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                            The United States has a state religion?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: "In God We Trust" should be removed from our currency

                              You forgot the rest of the article...

                              'In God We Trust' has been on US coins since at least 1864. This is not the product of cold war propaganda. Adding it to paper bills, yes that is a result of P.L. 84-851 but this issue is a lot older then just the 1950's.
                              True, my bad for not including the rest. The correspondence between the citizen and Secretary of the Treasury is insightful.
                              Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                              Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X