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  • Entire high school district fired

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/...s-hs-teachers/

    http://www.projo.com/education/conte...1.3a65218.html

    Performance, it seems is abysmal. The districtís high school graduation rate is said to be less than 50 percent, and things have been bad for a long time. Charged with turning things around, the superintendent asked teachers (who are making between $70,000 and $78,000 vs. the townís median income of $22,000) to work an extra 25 minutes a day, provide tutoring on a rotating schedule, and have lunch with the kids once a week. The union said no. So superintendent Frances Gallo went reluctantly to plan B: she fired the schoolís entire staff.
    So who really failed here? Why are the results so poor?
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

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  • #2
    Re: Entire high school district fired

    Good Catch..
    While there must be poor teachers (as there is in any field), I think that a Child can succeed even with a poor school system, with a STRONG HOME LIFE and PARENTAL ENVIRONMENT. I think it's much easier for folks to criticize the teachers then to stand up and say the Parents Suck in this neighborhood. And it seems (as my wife is a teacher in a "poverty district" ) that the concern only comes for many at the end of the year when little Johnny will not be pass OR little Johnny is not Eligible for sports.

    What really pisses me off is the BLATANT disregard for a small group of students who either give a Shizzle about school OR have parents who "Motivate" their kids to do well (Kinda like many of us reading this particular Forum had). Districts tolerate problem and disruptive students way beyond where they should. Too soft of a hand in most cases. School should be considered like a Drivers license ..You have the Right to get one, if you do what we say and follow the rules.. Otherwise.. Goodbye.. No More should it be a RIGHT to a public education.
    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
    ..now where did I put my keys?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Entire high school district fired

      Originally posted by peardog View Post
      Good Catch..
      While there must be poor teachers (as there is in any field), I think that a Child can succeed even with a poor school system, with a STRONG HOME LIFE and PARENTAL ENVIRONMENT. I think it's much easier for folks to criticize the teachers then to stand up and say the Parents Suck in this neighborhood. And it seems (as my wife is a teacher in a "poverty district" ) that the concern only comes for many at the end of the year when little Johnny will not be pass OR little Johnny is not Eligible for sports.

      What really pisses me off is the BLATANT disregard for a small group of students who either give a Shizzle about school OR have parents who "Motivate" their kids to do well (Kinda like many of us reading this particular Forum had). Districts tolerate problem and disruptive students way beyond where they should. Too soft of a hand in most cases. School should be considered like a Drivers license ..You have the Right to get one, if you do what we say and follow the rules.. Otherwise.. Goodbye.. No More should it be a RIGHT to a public education.
      I think there was failure at all levels. Even if the parents are bad the teachers should want to TRY and make the situation better. They are supposed to be professionals. The extra work asked was not tremendous.

      People are, for the most part, pack animals. If the pack is trying then the individuals will try. But a pack needs a strong leader. The superintendent is trying to be just that. His/her actions may just get the pack going down the right path.
      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Entire high school district fired

        Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
        http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/...s-hs-teachers/

        http://www.projo.com/education/conte...1.3a65218.html
        Performance, it seems is abysmal. The district’s high school graduation rate is said to be less than 50 percent, and things have been bad for a long time. Charged with turning things around, the superintendent asked teachers (who are making between $70,000 and $78,000 vs. the town’s median income of $22,000) to work an extra 25 minutes a day, provide tutoring on a rotating schedule, and have lunch with the kids once a week. The union said no. So superintendent Frances Gallo went reluctantly to plan B: she fired the school’s entire staff.

        So who really failed here? Why are the results so poor?
        also from the article:
        Under threat of losing their jobs if they didn’t go along with extra work for not a lot of extra pay, the Central Falls Teachers’ Union refused Friday morning to accept a reform plan for one of the worst-performing high schools in the state.
        If you aren't graduating half your students and you won't put forth the effort for a pay increase when you make over 3x the median income if the area your serve then you are the point of failure. The teacher's union and its members are the failure and deserved to be fired.

        Yes, parents and home situations have a huge impact on a child's success but teachers who won't make extra effort insure that students won't have a chance to overcome the home situation by going to school. With a 22k median income the area is pretty poverty stricken and they will have a horrible graduation rate, but that means the teachers in the area need to be the ones who will put forth effort.
        |TG-6th|Snooggums

        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Entire high school district fired

          Wow... I'm not really sure what to make of this. I agree that drastic changes need to be made in a situation like this, but the article does give one valid counter point. One of the few teachers who would comment, said that the teachers are willing to negotiate, but it was handed to them as 'take-it-or-leave-it' with no negotiations allowed.

          I agree that most teachers would always want to work to help kids, but what the superintendent was proposing was in effect an across the board pay cut. I've talked with a few of my old high school teachers over the years, many who are good teachers are willing to work extra hours, and give up a LOT of their time to help others. That being said I understand the the Unions wanting to negotiate for more pay, but ultimately as others have said 50% failure rate with only 7%-11% math proficiency is not acceptable.

          Next question: What is being done at the Middle and Elementary School levels to prepare kids for High School?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Entire high school district fired

            I also think that the teachers unwillingness to put forth extra effort may very well speak to their work ethic in general.
            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
            - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
            - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
            - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
            - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Entire high school district fired

              Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
              I also think that the teachers unwillingness to put forth extra effort may very well speak to their work ethic in general.
              Agreed... Like I said I've talked to a few teachers of mine from HS (The hazards of working for an office supply company) including the Union Rep for the teachers, Mr A. Quite a few agree MOST teachers are willing to work the extra hours needed for those who want the help. The issue for some is students who don't want to work.

              The other side of the coin often comes from new teachers. Mr A has commented to me that many new teachers he has seen in the district are all about the 7-3, as soon as the bell rings they race for the door just as fast as the students. The Teachers are not willing to provide additional support, they (like some of their students) want to put forth the least amount of effort to still be able to collect a paycheck.

              The problem is two fold.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Entire high school district fired

                Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                I also think that the teachers unwillingness to put forth extra effort may very well speak to their work ethic in general.
                I should have read the article before commenting.. But My comment was just a reaction I wanted off my chest..

                As for your Comment.. My Wife and I were just "Discussing" a matter similar to this last night. She is one of a group of 5 or 6 teacher that developed a special "Museum" project which has a Single evening (a few hours) after school segment, where the teacher have to be there for the parents. This is something the teachers developed and put together, not the school district. So far after 3 years no issues.. Until now... The UNION had decided to DEMAND Extra pay for that ONE DAY (3-4 hour event) or they refuse to do the museum project. Now this was the union doing this, not the teachers (See the disconnect..). No Vote..whatever.. which pissed off the teachers who will do this irregardless of the union..
                The union angle...as in most union angles..is that this sets a precedence and extra work for no pay will be expected for future projects..

                So while we see the media portraying the "TEACHERS" as greedy and not willing to do the work, remember the "TEACHERS" are really the UNION. Maybe time for a change there..
                |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                ..now where did I put my keys?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Entire high school district fired

                  Originally posted by DrakenViator View Post
                  The other side of the coin often comes from new teachers. Mr A has commented to me that many new teachers he has seen in the district are all about the 7-3, as soon as the bell rings they race for the door just as fast as the students. The Teachers are not willing to provide additional support, they (like some of their students) want to put forth the least amount of effort to still be able to collect a paycheck.
                  What I find odd, is that in my area it's the newer teachers...the ones who are not Indoctrinated in the ways of the OLD SCHOOL, who are the more inventive and energetic.. and the ones who PISS OFF The older teachers.. You get the argument that when you do extra work, it makes the other teachers (aka older teachers and slackers) look bad... Or the Union Rules don't permit you to stay and extra 15 minutes like that.. So take with a grain of salt what you here from an older Union Rep teacher.. and remember some of the tearchers you had when in school.. It's a mix.. but I recall the 30+ year teachers being on a Regurgitated lessons, taught over the past 2 decades with little modification..
                  |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                  ..now where did I put my keys?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Entire high school district fired

                    This also seems like an interesting point regarding out educational system.. http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...oney-than-god/

                    Throwing $$ at something is not always the answer...
                    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                    ..now where did I put my keys?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Entire high school district fired

                      I'll point out, for those that didn't read the article, that there were many student quotes about the teachers putting forth extra effort. Also, the firing of all teachers still allows half of them to be rehired, and was the second choice after the adjustments that were suggested were declined.

                      The union, and therefore the teachers that are part of the union who support it's action to refuse the extra required work without pay, are at fault. If the teachers are required to be part of the union but don't get a say in what happens then it isn't a union. By breaking the union's stranglehold the school will be able to rehire the quality teachers without the ridiculous union nay saying.

                      Unions have their time and places and should address specific issues but this isn't one of them.
                      |TG-6th|Snooggums

                      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Entire high school district fired

                        Around here pretty much the only way to fail out of high school is to give up and stop attending. If the students don't go to class extra tutoring time isn't going to help.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Entire high school district fired

                          The problem I have with blaming Parents/Students is that it is a dead end. Sure there is a good probability that they are also at fault but there isn't much that can be done about families that do not respect education. Therefore the second that blame is laid nothing else can happen.

                          Plus, for me, there are too many anecdotal stories about a supposedly hopeless school district that went from bottom of the barrel to average or better when some form of leadership decided that things had to get better. I have a hard time believing over 50% of the families just don't want their kids to graduate. Even if they are lazy they probably still want their kids to be educated and graduate.
                          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Entire high school district fired

                            I hope some of those crappy teachers had tenure as well! Its about time teachers who think they can get away with teaching poorly get caught red handed and get the boot. I think the superintendent deserves a pat on the back.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Entire high school district fired

                              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                              If you aren't graduating half your students and you won't put forth the effort for a pay increase when you make over 3x the median income if the area your serve then you are the point of failure. The teacher's union and its members are the failure and deserved to be fired.
                              Yes, thats a staggering gap in income comparatively. Thats not to include the benefits the teachers recieve either, such as health insurance. People that make $22,000 a year typically don't have health insurance as part of their benefits, if they have any benefits at all. I guess the myth that teachers don't make enough money -therefore thats why education is so poor- is out the door. You're also right about the teachers union being at fault because they breed corruption -such as local politicians not being able to be elected without their endorsement- and lobby for salaries that are not compensatory to the level of work that teachers actually do. The fact that the teachers and their union -mostly the union I suspect- were not willing to accept the terms from the school superintendent only further illustrates the failure of government employee unions and their never-ending quest for more entitlements for less than satisfactory work. There are exceptions though, but not in this case in my opinion.
                              |TG-X| mp40x



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