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  • $875 billion health care bill near passage

    What do you guys think of the health care bill that might be passing very soon? I'll admit I haven't gotten into the heavy details beyond reading about its progress over the past few months. I imagine its a few thousand pages, has anyone here read it? I don't believe any republicans are voting for it, but I imagine that's mostly for political posturing rather than any real difference from the democrats on the issue beyond rhetoric.
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  • #2
    Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

    I've not read it, but I know what the democrats have been talking about changing/not changing in the Senate bill. It looks like it's going to pass. I'm disappointed. I don't think our country can afford everything that President Bush and President Obama have done, and this is certainly not going to help.

    I wrote my Congressman, a democrat, and thanked him for taking a stand to vote against this horrible concept.
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    • #3
      Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

      I can't wait till this bill passes. It's going to be highly entertaining watching Glenn Beck have an on air nervous break down.
      |TG-9th| TheFatKidDeath
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      • #4
        Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

        It doesn't have everything I think should be in the bill, but it's a step forward. I'm somewhat skeptical of the GAO's claims that it'll save $1.2 trillion over the next 2 decades, especially since I'm not sure it addresses some of the larger issues that contribute to ridiculous healthcare costs.



        TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran

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        • #5
          Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

          It is a step forward and I am glad something was accomplished.

          America can afford it if it wants to. We afford the largest military in the history of mankind. Like tau said, we have to start addressing what makes it more important. This bill starts it but ultimately we have to change the way we charge for health care.
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          • #6
            Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

            And it's done...

            No matter what, Removals of caps and making denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions illegal are the hugest wins.
            Do or do not, there is no try....
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            • #7
              Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

              Hopefully it'll be an analogue to Clinton's 1993 budget, which every republican voted against and passed by only one vote, that ultimately came out pretty successful.

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              • #8
                Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

                Yes, I know it's dated, but lets hope we can get a tad better then 37th.



                Former TG-21st
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                • #9
                  Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                  Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                  It is a step forward and I am glad something was accomplished.

                  America can afford it if it wants to. We afford the largest military in the history of mankind.
                  Technically we're not affording it, China is. This health care passage is also funded courtesy of inflation and China. Militaristic jingoism starts to ring pretty hollow when you're selling off your infrastructure to pay your debts.
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                  • #10
                    Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                    Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                    We afford the largest military in the history of mankind.
                    We have the largest defense budget, but China has the largest number of active troops, and the Russian Federation has the most tanks etc.

                    Just FYI and stuff.

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                    • #11
                      Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                      I am always entertained that people don't realize that taxes being increased by shifting the costs to the government usually sends up saving money.

                      Roads are cheaper and available to all when funded through the government, for most people it is better and it will be the same with health care. My biggest disappointment was the lack of single payer option, after all it works for every other developed nation.
                      |TG-6th|Snooggums

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                      • #12
                        Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                        Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                        ...for most people it is better and it will be the same with health care. My biggest disappointment was the lack of single payer option, after all it works for every other developed nation.
                        HAHAHAHAHA! I cant help but to laugh at this sentiment. A 10% subsidy for those who cant afford health care, but if you dont buy health care you get slammed with a tax penalty. excuse me? so if that 10% boost doesnt get you over the bar for being able to afford health care, the government sees fit to PUNISH you? WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP.

                        You dont even want me to get into how this is going to effect the REAL healthcare industry. I'm not talking about insurance companies either, I'm talking about hospitals and doctors and nurses and the tens of thousands of people whose lives revolve around medicine. MY hospital alone is predicting a 15-20% pay cut for all employees by THE END OF THE YEAR and further cuts down the road. So because people abuse the current system or cant manage to get by on the available free care, I and my fellow medical professionals get to suffer. I give it 5 years before we see a major collapse of the medical industry in this country.

                        Effing BS. All anyone thought about in this whole process was how to bone the insurance companies. Nobody thought about the fallout to those of us who actually work in related fields. It's going to be really funny to watch people whining about not being able to find a doctor with their brand new insurance after half of them quit and/or move to other countries.

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                        • #13
                          Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                          Doctors quitting because of money? Seems they didn't comprehend the oath they took to me.
                          Do or do not, there is no try....
                          -- Yoda, Dagobah

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                          • #14
                            Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                            gun, the average starting salary for a nurse with a BSN (yes, a 4+ year degree since most colleges require 140+ credit hours to graduate instead of the usual 120 for something like a business degree) straight out of school in the US is approximately 46,500 before taxes. Take 20% from that and thats what we're looking at in the next year. Then find me another job that requires the same level of education with the same pitfalls as nursing does (forced overtime, getting stabbed, puked on, pooped on, peed on, bled on, acquiring diseases 4x more commonly than the average person, long hours, etc) for the same pay. Its got nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath. Its on principle and necessity.

                            Now, of course, theres no necessity that doctors make huge stacks of cash, but thats kind of the reward you get for going through 8 years of the hardest education on the planet, a minimum of 1 year internship, 3-6 years of residency depending on your field, and then a fellowship or attending position for several years before you get to the point where you're making those stacks...if you're LUCKY. I know lots of doctors, I have to, i work with them. Not a single one of them was buying their first expensive car before they were about 40. Most doctors less than 10 years out of med school make less than 100k a year.

                            but you show me anyone who is making big money in ANY field who is facing a 20% pay cut in the next year, and tell me they're not going to be shopping for a better deal. it's not about screwing over patients, its about getting the shaft. i care more about my patients than i probably should, but even I am looking into the prospect of finding another country to work in.

                            I got this job with a certain expectation, and having that rug yanked out from underneath me because the federal government decided that it was about time to screw some people over is hardly fair. I've done nothing but put myself through school, attained 3 degrees, and spent my professional career helping people who needed it. How exactly does it work that I should suffer because some 26 year old woman with 8 kids on welfare was too stupid to make smart decisions with her life and now doesnt have the time or skills to get a job that will afford her healthcare. NOT MY EFFING PROBLEM. I busted my ass to get where I am. Plain and simple.

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                            • #15
                              Re: $875 billion health care bill near passage

                              I wouldn't say medical school is the hardest education on the planet. I may require the most effort and work put in, but it's not nearly as intellectually demanding as say a PhD in physics or mathematics. Professors go through just as much schooling as doctors, time wise. In some cases it's more demanding. For instance, while working on his PhD in biology, my dad took many biology courses that contained both PhD and MD students. The PhD students required B+s to pass while the MD students required Cs or C-s. But I grant that graduate school in general is less stressful and less demanding work wise than medical school. I do think that the dissertation phrase is much more intellectually demanding, however.

                              Academia is just as, if not more competitive than the medical field too. In a large part, this is because there are so few academic positions and professors don't rarely retire before they're really old. I saw one estimate that there are around dozens of new PhDs awarded in philosophy for each new philosophy position that's created. Starting salary for a professor is around the mid $30ks. That's if you can find a stable tenure track position. Adjuncts are paid $2500-$3000 per class they teach, with no benefits. I have a friend who's just turned 50 and divides his time adjuncting at three different schools. He makes about $17k per semester, teaching 6 classes. When you include prep and grading time, that's a lot of work (although granted it's not particularly hard), on average of 60-80 hours per week. He's got to apply for the positions each semester because the schools only decide whether they have enough enrollment to offer courses that he might teach a few months before the semester begins. He's got basically zero job security. He gets paid about as much as a McDonald's manager for doing far more work - and it's probably just as dull. (Grading student essays is the worst. And he's got no time to work on any research or publications to try to get a better job.) But he went through 10+ years of university education. Sure this is a fairly extreme case - I would leave the field if I couldn't secure a tenure-track job - but professor salaries are also being cut - not to mention positions. Cornell, for instance, is trying to cut 15% of its faculty while increasing enrollment by 20%. Where the heck are those people going to go? And that's going to increase the work load of faculty that aren't getting cut without any additional pay.

                              I suppose professors have an analogue of the argument you're giving. They've always been shafted in terms of salary, given the amount of education they must go through.

                              By the way, which country are you looking to work in? One that doesn't have nationalized health care?

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