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  • Tasers back in the news?

    "Court OKs Repeated Tasering of Pregnant Woman"

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...woman_tasered/

  • #2
    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Using a taser is like hitting them with a club. If they wouldn't hit someone for not signing a ticket they sure shouldn't be tasering them. For a comparison, being tasered is like sticking a knife in a live electrical socket, but with a slightly lower chance of death.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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    • #3
      Re: Tasers back in the news?

      Originally posted by snooggums View Post
      Using a taser is like hitting them with a club. If they wouldn't hit someone for not signing a ticket they sure shouldn't be tasering them. For a comparison, being tasered is like sticking a knife in a live electrical socket, but with a slightly lower chance of death.
      i stuck a knife in a socket once when i was little. my hair almost stood up lol. although it didnt do me much pain or anything rly, just a quick buzz

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tasers back in the news?

        It's not the taser that kills people, it's usualy the Crack/PCP that they took prior to being tased. :D


        LOL
        |TG-X|Turkish

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        • #5
          Re: Tasers back in the news?

          Originally posted by snooggums View Post
          Using a taser is like hitting them with a club. If they wouldn't hit someone for not signing a ticket they sure shouldn't be tasering them. For a comparison, being tasered is like sticking a knife in a live electrical socket, but with a slightly lower chance of death.
          Not precisely. When you stick a knife into an electrical socket you create a connection point between the knife and the ground. Your entire body becomes a conduit for the electricity. The way the taser works is by creating an electrical arc between the two darts. This is why one dart shoots straight out of the taser and the other shoots out at a slight angle. This creates a distance between the two impact points of the darts, making a large pathway between the two and causing the muscle groups in between to contract.

          You can actually shoot someone with a taser at point-blank range and severely negate its incapacitating power because the pathway between the two barbs makes a small area of contraction.

          Other things can also negate the taser's effectiveness: thick clothes, obesity, etc. Big guys with a lot of muscle are severely hindered by the taser.

          Just a FYI.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tasers back in the news?

            Don't outlaw anything you're not willing to use deadly force to enforce. If it's not worth a death, it's not worth criminalizing. Presumably traffic laws are worth killing over because one can negligently kill someone with the vehicle. It was worth potentially slaughtering this woman to save other street users.
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tasers back in the news?

              Originally posted by Gill View Post
              Not precisely. When you stick a knife into an electrical socket you create a connection point between the knife and the ground. Your entire body becomes a conduit for the electricity. The way the taser works is by creating an electrical arc between the two darts.

              Just a FYI.
              You missed my point, both are forms of electrocution that are hard on the body. Electrocuting someone to the point that muscles seize up is dangerous and damaging.

              Kwalc, your knife must not have been very conductive.
              |TG-6th|Snooggums

              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tasers back in the news?

                FWIW, they used the least amount of force necessary to bring the situation down to a controllable level. Manhandling her out of the car could've caused more physical harm to her than zapping her. If I'm reading it correctly, they did not "taze" her but rather used the tool by pressing it against her skin without discharging the darts. It's still painful, but the area effected by the jolt is very small. Like, maybe an inch between the two points.

                “A suspect who repeatedly refuses to comply with instructions or leave her car escalates the risk involved for officers unable to predict what type of noncompliance might come next,” Judge Cynthia Holcomb Hall wrote for the majority. She was joined by Judge Diarmuid F. O’Scannlain.
                That's really the only important part of this. It would've been too easy for her to make an emotional decision and decide to start her car and drive away. She must've been pretty angry to get zapped three times before they could get her out of the car.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tasers back in the news?

                  Might have.
                  Might have.
                  Might have.

                  You don't electrocute someone for something they have not shown any sign of doing. Was she violent? She had not shown any kind of violent intentions. Tasers are a (mostly) non-lethal alternative to shooting someone, not a human version of a shock collar that is used on dogs to get them to comply.
                  |TG-6th|Snooggums

                  Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tasers back in the news?

                    Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                    Kwalc, your knife must not have been very conductive.
                    The knife was only one side of the circuit. The other side was his connection to ground, and that was unspecified. If you're completely insulated and touch a hot wire, nothing happens, because there's no path to ground. It's only when there's potential (voltage) between two points that a shock can happen.

                    (Aside: Voltage (AKA potential) is like the difference in height between water above and below a dam. Without the difference in height, the water has no desire to move. Current, OTOH, is the measure of flow rate of charge past a point. Resistance is a property of a conductor: Skin has very high resistance and blood and guts (essentially salt water) has very low resistance. The relationship is voltage equals current times resistance. Voltage is what you feel. Current is what kills you.)

                    I believe I saw a video here recently (maybe it was me who posted it?) of a guy servicing ultra high voltage towers by being lowered onto them by helicopter. Yet he doesn't get shocked. That's because there's no connection between him and ground. If you stuck a knife in a solid enough socket and hung by the knife without touching anything, you'd be just like the guy on the high voltage cables, and would be completely safe. But let your other bare hand touch a metal ladder on a concrete floor and you start risking a nasty shock.
                    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tasers back in the news?

                      Oh, look, it was me! And sordavie graciously added musical accompaniment!

                      http://www.tacticalgamer.com/hardwar...h-voltage.html
                      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tasers back in the news?

                        Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                        You don't electrocute someone for something they have not shown any sign of doing. Was she violent? She had not shown any kind of violent intentions. Tasers are a (mostly) non-lethal alternative to shooting someone, not a human version of a shock collar that is used on dogs to get them to comply.
                        She had already shown a willingness to drive at unsafe speeds that would kill innocent bystanders.

                        ISTM that a taser is precisely a human shock collar. The alternative would be to risk tackling her in her car (her territory) and risk getting a knife or gunshot in the ribs. Or have her drive away and kill a passerby at unsafe speed.
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tasers back in the news?

                          People speed all the time, she was stopped at the side of the road and simply refusing to sign a piece of paper, which indicates they were going to let her continue driving instead of arresting her prior to her refusal to sign. She had complied by stopping and simply refused to put a pen to paper. Where was the indication of danger for the officers or others? Non-violent resistance to police action is acceptable.

                          The sidetracking on conductivity is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. The whole point of the example was to give someone a reference for how much a taser shocks someone by pointing out a common electrical danger and I just pointed out that Kwalc's experience wasn't a good example of the normal expectation.
                          |TG-6th|Snooggums

                          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tasers back in the news?

                            A bit more information about this matter.

                            www.seattlepi.com/local/223578_taser10.html
                            Brooks' run-in with police Nov. 23 came six months before Seattle adopted a new policy on Taser use that guides officers on how to deal with pregnant women, the very young, the very old and the infirm. When used on such subjects, the policy states, "the need to stop the behavior should clearly justify the potential for additional risks."

                            "Obviously, (law enforcement agencies) don't want to use a Taser on young children, pregnant woman or elderly people," Davis said. "But if in your policy you deliberately exclude a segment of the population, then you have potentially closed off a tool that could have ended a confrontation."

                            Brooks was stopped in the 8300 block of Beacon Avenue South, just outside the African American Academy, while dropping her son off for school.

                            In a two-day trial that ended Friday, the officer involved, Officer Juan Ornelas, testified he clocked Brooks' Dodge Intrepid doing 32 mph in a 20-mph school zone.

                            He motioned her over and tried to write her a ticket, but she wouldn't sign it, even when he explained that signing it didn't mean she was admitting guilt.

                            Brooks, in her testimony, said she believed she could accept a ticket without signing for it, which she had done once before.

                            "I said, 'Well, I'll take the ticket, but I won't sign it,' " Brooks testified.

                            Officer Donald Jones joined Ornelas in trying to persuade Brooks to sign the ticket. They then called on their supervisor, Sgt. Steve Daman.

                            He authorized them to arrest her when she continued to refuse.

                            The officers testified they struggled to get Brooks out of her car but could not because she kept a grip on her steering wheel.

                            And that's when Jones brought out the Taser.

                            Brooks testified she didn't even know what it was when Jones showed it to her and pulled the trigger, allowing her to hear the crackle of 50,000 volts of electricity.

                            The officers testified that was meant as a final warning, as a way to demonstrate the device was painful and that Brooks should comply with their orders.

                            When she still did not exit her car, Jones applied the Taser.

                            In his testimony, the Taser officer said he pressed the prongs of the muzzle against Brooks' thigh to no effect. So he applied it twice to her exposed neck.

                            Afterward, he and the others testified, Ornelas pushed Brooks out of the car while Jones pulled.

                            She was taken to the ground, handcuffed and placed in a patrol car, the officers testified.

                            She told jurors the officer also used the device on her arm, and showed them a dark, brown burn to her thigh, a large, red welt on her arm and a lump on her neck, all marks she said came from the Taser application.

                            At the South Precinct, Seattle fire medics examined Brooks, confirmed she was pregnant and recommended she be evaluated at Harborview Medical Center.

                            Brooks said she was worried about the effect the trauma and the Taser might have on her baby, but she delivered a healthy girl Jan. 31.

                            Still, she said, she remains shocked that a simple traffic stop could result in her arrest.

                            "As police officers, they could have hurt me seriously. They could have hurt my unborn fetus," she said.

                            "All because of a traffic ticket. Is this what it's come down to?"

                            Davis said Tasers remain a valuable tool, and that situations like Brooks' are avoidable.

                            "I know the Taser is controversial in all these situations where it seems so egregious," he said. "Why use a Taser in a simple traffic stop? Well, the citizen has made it more of a problem. It's no longer a traffic stop. This is now a confrontation."

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                            • #15
                              Re: Tasers back in the news?

                              The additional description supports my opinion further.

                              She wouldn't put ink to paper, the arrest itself was fine but using electric shock to force her to comply was wrong. Do they get to smack people in the back of the head for not complying when they are not violent? No. Using electric shock as a tool to force a non-violent person to comply is wrong in every situation.
                              |TG-6th|Snooggums

                              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                              Comment

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