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  • Anyone else worried by this?

    Recently I've been worrying about something. A few of the games I am really looking forward to in future are connected in some way with military training, including Operation Arrowhead. Another example is the DCS series.

    Both of these games are being developed in parallel with products for the military market. In the above cases it would be VBS2 and the new A10C simulator. There is a lot of money to be made from the military market I imagine, and we get benefits from the co-operation.

    But my problem is that I don't want my money to go towards anything related to the military. You may say that they are separate companies, or that without the civilian market they might become soley military contractors, but in some way am I not contributing? However small? Or even just personally benefitting from military money?

    The reason I am mentally wringing my hands so much (apart from my opposition to the establishment) is that without operation arrowhead, I will be effectively annexed from this community. The only place where I have ever truly felt involved (I believe TS is a big step forward in this area, but that is another discussion).
    "Can't waste a day when the night brings a hearse
    So make a move and plead the fifth 'cause you can't plead the first."

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  • #2
    Re: Anyone else worried by this?

    The only time you'll see your money going towards the military is if the military owns said company. BIS isn't owned by any military as far as I know so I don't see what you need to worry about. The money you spend goes towards BIS and it's employees. The success of VBS2 is dependent upon how much the governments pay BIS to develop it and I can't see any reason why civilians paying for Op:AH would contribute towards military training.

    Damnit Blizzard, fix ZvT already >.<
    In Soviet Russian, Arma admins are nice to you!

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    • #3
      Re: Anyone else worried by this?

      I think I get the gist of the concern you are at issue with, and I'm not sure you will find enough separation to satisfy your personal obligations. FWIW, your tax dollars are a much larger source of funding for what the military does verses the company that makes the game. Of the $50 you spend on the game I bet none of it actually funds military aspects, as those are much more profitable in their own right. If anything, you playing the game means the military is actually subsidizing your version of the game and thus, your enjoyment. A different quandary altogether lol.

      My personal opinion is that a trained military is a more humane military (vs untrained), a more effective method of keeping your dollars from getting bloody hands is to support political action that avoids unnecessary conflict in the first place.

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      • #4
        Re: Anyone else worried by this?

        Don't really see how you could be paying the military, being that the military is buying the simulator from the company, not the other way around.


        In a world of Herp, one man dares to Derp.

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        • #5
          Re: Anyone else worried by this?

          The concern is by selling a commercial product, they help fund their military product lines, thus the consumer is indirectly supporting a military complex. It's probably the other way around.


          But think of it this way: Wear gore-tex outerwear? Carbon fiber hiking gear? Precision binocs? Camelback? GPS? Playing this game is the same analogue.

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          • #6
            Re: Anyone else worried by this?

            I agree with what Pistolfied said.

            Also, the money that BIS earn selling ArmA 2 isn't sufficient the make anything on the military.

            Sapientiam Autem Non Vincit Malitia

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            • #7
              Re: Anyone else worried by this?

              You're feeding the military far more by paying taxes than you are by picking up a BIS product.

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              • #8
                Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                The military doesn't need game sales for it's funding... That would be like holding a bake sale for the next aircraft carrier.

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                • #9
                  Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                  Thanks for all the replies so far.

                  I understand that Chief, but through the two examples I mentioned they have two new training tools.
                  "Can't waste a day when the night brings a hearse
                  So make a move and plead the fifth 'cause you can't plead the first."

                  Interesting Articles__________News
                  tinyurl.com/PipelineGeopolitics_____prisonplanet.com
                  tinyurl.com/USTrainGeorgia_______globalresearch.ca
                  tinyurl.com/Rumsfeld-GeorgianDM__engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net
                  tinyurl.com/Georgia3rdinIraq

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                    I don't know your reasons for not supporting the military, but presumably they would coincide for having a better trained military. The better trained a force is at cultural awareness and decision making the less feelings are going to get hurt when they are on the job. Infantry would be less likely to offend some civilian while doing a house search, and less likely to shoot a non-combatant during a moment of chaos. Both of which cause more bad feelings and new combatants. Also, better trained officers are less likely to call fire support when they shouldn't; and better trained nco's are less likely to mess up the targeting. Better trained pathfinders and pilots won't sling a bomb 100m off target. You could continue for every job if you wanted.

                    Even if you don't support the military I'm sure you don't like the deaths of your countrymen. Training increases survivability. Stay alert, stay alive.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                      well If so, I'd rather it go to our military than to the alquida mulisha. Interesting point though. If anything these games promote enlistment for the military.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                        Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
                        The military doesn't need game sales for it's funding... That would be like holding a bake sale for the next aircraft carrier.
                        Uber Lulz. Thanks for making my dull day that much more bearable.

                        TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                        Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                        "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

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                        • #13
                          Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                          Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
                          The military doesn't need game sales for it's funding... That would be like holding a bake sale for the next aircraft carrier.
                          So THAT is where Chief got all his boats! :D
                          |TG-18th| Cutter

                          Long-time Gamer - ArmA 2 Noob - Certified Old Fart

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                          • #14
                            Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                            All kidding aside, where does pacifism end? At the shores of your country or at the door to your house? There are bad guys out there and the military and police forces serve a purpose, a buffer between you and them. Turning the other cheek gets you some butthead kicking the crap out of you and your family during an armed invasion of your house while you flip him the peace sign... peace out. Granted the military is used as a tool for your governments policies, right or wrong. Blame your government , not the military.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anyone else worried by this?

                              Right now in any case, any money/aid to them might in my mind have innocent blood on it.

                              On the subject of bad guys, yes there are. But that's not what we are using our militaries for at the moment.

                              The idea of a well funded military being a more humane military is interesting, and may be true - depending on how that training is done (skill not robotisation). But training is also directly related to whether they will win or lose. But in the cases I mentioned in th OP the training does not help much on the humane end - simply tactics, SA etc.

                              Turning the other cheek gets you some butthead kicking the crap out of you and your family during an armed invasion of your house while you flip him the peace sign... peace out.
                              Whereas going around the world maintaining the American empire's full spectrum dominance - like our empire before it - will earn the world's gratitude? The guy you mentioned invading us - he is probably kicking my ass beacuse of what my country did. EDIT: Also i'm quite doubtful Iraq or Aghanistan were ever in the process of invading the UK or the US.

                              Granted the military is used as a tool for your governments policies, right or wrong. Blame your government , not the military.
                              I have never really agreed with that Chief. Whenever I hear the cry of "don't blame the troops blame the government" I think, "why?". They pull the trigger in the end. I understand it is the military's job to follow the orders of government - but that is not a get out of jail free card (as we learnt at Nuremberg). Turning yourself into a tool for use by others and sacrificing your conscience is a dangerous thing. How many times have you heard "I'm just doing my job"? I understand that troops may have gone for one reason or another because they were lied to, or becasue they believe in the mission. This complicates matters, but the responsibility rests with them as well as government to be sure of the actions they take.
                              Last edited by fireship4; 04-20-2010, 04:39 PM.
                              "Can't waste a day when the night brings a hearse
                              So make a move and plead the fifth 'cause you can't plead the first."

                              Interesting Articles__________News
                              tinyurl.com/PipelineGeopolitics_____prisonplanet.com
                              tinyurl.com/USTrainGeorgia_______globalresearch.ca
                              tinyurl.com/Rumsfeld-GeorgianDM__engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net
                              tinyurl.com/Georgia3rdinIraq

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